Constituent Assembly Of India -Volume IX

Dated: August 31, 1949

Shri Raj Bahadur: Mr. President, Sir, I move:-

"That in amendment No. 34 of List I (Sixth Week), in the proposed entry 63 of List I after the words 'dangerously inflammable' the words 'corrosive or explosive be Sir, my purpose in moving this amendment is to include acids also within the. purview and ambit of this entry. I hope, Sir, that I can say without fear of contradiction that it is positively necessary to legislate in respect of the possession, storage, transport and sale of acids. We have seen how acids have been misused in even ordinary petty disputes and quarrels. We have also seen of late the growth of the cult of the acid bulbs in the field and arena of political controversy. It is therefore necessary that we should control the storage, possession etc., of acids and see that no mischief is made or created with the help of such liquids. We should hence, include acids also within the purview of this entry. The entry as moved by the Drafting Committee deals firstly with oilfields and mineral oil resources. Secondly it deals with petroleum and petroleum products and lastly it deals with substances declared by Parliament by law to be dangerously inflammable. I would submit that in the last Category we should include acids also. It may be useful to point out that acids by selves could be and are being used as weapons and acids are also used in the manufacture of explosives. So, it is necessary that the Union should control such articles as acids also. Sir, I move.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I do not think that either of these two amendments is necessary. The purpose which my Friend Professor Shibban Lal Saksena has in view, viz., that entry 63 should also permit the Centre to regulate prospecting for oil, etc., would be served by the words we have used "Regulation and development". With regard to the addition of the word "corrosive", I think it is not necessary to have any such power at all.

Mr. President: The question is

"That in amendment No. 34 of List I (Sixth Week), in the proposed entry 63 of List I,the words "Prospecting for and" be inserted in the beginning."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: Then amendment No. 262.

Shri Raj Bahadur: I, do not press my amendment.

The amendment was, by leave of the Assembly, withdrawn.

Mr. President: The question, is:

"That for entry 63 of List I,, the following entry be substituted63. Regulation and development of oilfields and mineral oil resources; petroleum and petroleum products; other liquids and substances declared by Parliament by law to be dangerously inflammable ."

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 63, as amended, was added to the Union List.

Entry 64

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Sir, I move :

That for entry 64 of List I, the following entry be substituted

'64. Industries, the control of which by the Union is declared by Parliament by law to be expedient in the public interest'."

Kaka Bhagwat Roy: *[Mr. President, my amendment is as follows:-

That in amendment No. 35 of List I (Sixth Week) in the proposed entry 64 of List I,. for the word 'Industries the words 'development of Industries' be substituted."

It appears from the amendment which the Honourable Doctor has introduced in the original entry that he wants to hand over all the powers regarding industries to the Centre. It is very good; the Centre ought to be strong, and during transition, the Centre should be vested with such powers as are essential for the Industrial development of the country. But in normal times, the Centre should not be vested with such authority. India is a very big country. She has many provinces. These Provinces have their own difficulties and cam understand their problem much better than the Centre.

The problem of Industries is very complicated. Therefore so far this question is concerned. every province should be given facilities to solve its own problems. If you make the Provinces responsible for industrial

development and do not give them powers to deal with the situation, then the problem of Provinces cannot be solved and it will retard the industrial progress of the country. Although I am somewhat deviating from the point, yet I must say that the present Industrial policy of the Centre will prove a stumbling-block in the path of the Country's progress.]

Mr. President:*[You are not only speaking on your amendment, but you are opposing it.]

Kaka Bhagwant Roy: *[I bow down to your ruling. But I would like to, say that so far industries are concerned, the Provinces should be entrusted with necessary powers ; for they can understand the problem of their industries. better With these words I would request the Honourable Doctor to accept the amendment.]

Shri H. V. Kamath: Mr. President, I move amendment No. 214 of Third' List (Sixth Week) which reads as follows:-

That In amendment No. 35 of List I (Sixth Week) in the proposed entry 64 of List I, for The words the control' the words 'the development and control' be substituted."

This amendment includes or embraces the amendment Just now moved by my honourable Friend, Kaka Bhagwant Roy. The original entry as it-stood in the Draft Constitution referred to the development of industries. I wonder why the Drafting Committee has suddenly developed an antipathy to the word "development" in this entry. My amendment is on the lines of a legislative

[] Translation of Hindustni speech

measure which was introduced in the Assembly during the last Budget Session and which has been referred to a Select Committee. That Bill provided for governmental action in industries, the development and control of which was to be regulated by the Centre and the title of the Bill was "Industries (Development and Control) Bill", that is to say, the subject-matter of this entry has been already taken cognizance by the Central Government in a Bill, the title of which includes not merely control but the development of industries which are deemed necessary or expedient in the public interest. I realize it is quite possible the Drafting Committee owing to the excessive strain under which it has laboured during the last two years and especially during the last few weeks or months, is liable to commit slips here and there, but I hope that the Drafting Committee. has not developed a closed or a calcified mind, which is not receptive to any change whatsoever. I think that the meaning of this entry will be, more adequately and more fully conveyed by amending this word "control" on the lines I have suggested and seeking to incorporate in this entry not merely control but also the development of industries, which means, industries the development and control of which by the Union is declared by Parliament, by law, to be expedient in the public interests I move amendment No. 214 of List III (sixth Week) and commend it to the House for its earnest Consideration.

Mr. President: There are two other amendments which are in the printed book of amendments, No. 3552 in the name of the Honourable Dr. Syama prasad Mookerjee and No. 3553 in the name of Honourable Shri K. Santhanam. I take it that they are not moved.

The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, the. entry as it stands is perfectly all right and carries out the intention that the Drafting Committee has in mind. My submission is that once the Centre obtained jurisdiction ,over any particular industry as provided for in this entry, that industry becomes subject to the jurisdiction of Parliament in all its aspects, not merely development but it may be in other aspects. Consequently, we have thought that the best thing is to put the industries first so as to give undoubted jurisdiction to Parliament to deal with it in any manner it likes, not necessarily development. Therefore, the entry is far wider than Mr. Kamath intends it to be.

Mr.President: The question is:

That in amendment No- 35 of List I (Sixth Week) in the proposed entry 64 of List I, for the word 'Industries' the words 'Development of Industries be substituted."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: The question is:

That in amendment No. 35 of List I (Sixth Week) in the proposed entry 64 of List I, for the word 'the control' the words 'the development and control' be substituted."

The amendment was negatived,

Mr. President: The question is :

That for entry 64 of List I, the following entry be substituted:--

64. Industries the control of which by the Union is declared by Parliament by law to be expedient in the public interest."'

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 64, as amended, was added to the Union List.New Entry 64-A

Shibban Lal Saksena: Mr. President,Sir, I beg to move:

That after entry 64 of List I. the following new entry be added :-'64-A. Co-ordination of the development of agriculture including animal husbandry, forestry and fisheries and the supply and distribution of food."' Sir, I wish to point out to the Drafting Committee and its Chairman that this entry which I have suggested is in accordance with the recommendation made by the. Ministry of Agriculture of the Government of India. In fact in the letter which the Honourable Shri Jairamdas Daulatram wrote to the. Honourable Dr. Ambedkar in January 1948, he bad used the same words. I would only quote the last two paragraphs of that letter. He says:

"The difficulties of feeding the ever-increasing population of India and the experience of the last war have made it abundantly clear that the national interest demands that the Centre should play a more active role in the sphere of Agricultural Development and in January 1946 a statement of Agriculture and Food Policy in India was issued by Government from which it will be seen that the Centre assumed to itself specific responsibilities for the development of agriculture and the supply and distribution of food and to co-ordinate an All--India policy of Agricultural development, food production and distribution......

We have given the matter very careful consideration and we think that there will be no adequate answer to the challenge of the Ministry of Finance that the agricultural development is a provincial responsibility until there is some specific suitable provision in the Constitution Act itself. I am inclined to think that the time has come when the Centre ought to take tip the entire responsibility in regard to food, But the minimum that is essential in national interest is that the Centre must have an active hand in coordinating and guiding agricultural development all over the country. I would, therefore, suggest for your consideration that, besides the existing item No. 12 in the Federal Legislative List, the following item should also be included in that List. namely, "Co-ordination of the development of agriculture including animal husbandry, forestry and fisheries and the supply and distribution of food."

What I have done is only to point out the omission of the Drafting Committee. In fact it is well-known today that the, food problem is the most difficult problem which the country has to solve. The amount of imports which we have to make is really depriving us of all our resources and We cannot develop our industrial resources and other things.

So I think if we want that we should be. self-sufficient in food within a few years--one or two years as has been proposed,-then it is necessary that there should be a drive from the Centre. I am glad for what the Government is doing today. I do not think that even this much power has been provided for the Union Government in this Constitution. The present controls and other regulations will not be possible unless some such entry is included in the Union List. I really wonder whether the recommendations of the Agriculture Ministry contained in the letter of Shri Jairamdas Daulatram, dated 5th July 1948 which they have published in this booklet known as 'Comments on the Provisions contained in the Draft Constitution of India' have been altogether 'forgotten. In fact I am personally in full agreement with his suggestions that it should be the responsibility of the Centre alone to see that India gets food in proper measure. Besides, what he suggests is not even that he only wants co-ordination of the development of agriculture including animal husbandry and fishery. He says the additional powers asked for relate to the inclusion of reclamation of waste lands on a large scale requiring the use of plant and machinery. forest laws and inland fisheries and fishery laws. He thinks all these are necessary if India is to be made self-sufficient in food.

Shri Mahavir Tyagi (United Provinces: General): What do the provincial Governments say?

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: Food problem can only be solved if we tackle it on an all-India basis. We have seen Bengal famine and the province of Bengal could not help it. Unless the Centre has powers to export food from certain provinces to meet famine in other provinces it will be difficult to solve the problem. It is not a question of taking away the powers of the province; but of meeting emergencies. I therefore think this power is necessary after seeing the history of the last five or six years regarding famines and controls. Government have been compelled to take powers in their hands which were necessary for them and I only want that we must provide for these powers if the Constitution; otherwise it will handicap us in solving the food problem. I personally feel that the reclamation of lands etc. cannot be taken up by small provinces and States and that will require the help from the Centre. The Centre must be able to devote attention to this exclusively. This is most important.

Shri Kishorimohan Tripathi (C.P. & Berar States): Mr. President, Sir, I beg to draw your attention to two amendments in the printed list-Nos. 74 A and 74B to be introduced as two new entries--which I proposed to move, but I do not propose to move them, and have come to support the amendment moved by Shri Saksena. As has been pointed out by Shri Saksena, this amendment has been proposed also to be incorporated in the Constitution of India, by the Ministry of Agriculture. Shri Saksena has already made a reference to it. Food is the most important problem in India and it is a very serious problem, and the Government of India have committed themselves to solve this problem as early as possible. in fact, we have made up our minds, that after the year 1951, no food imports should be allowed, because food imports have been eating a vital part fo our exchanges, and by selling imported food at rates available in the Indian markets, we have been incurring expenditure in giving subsidies to the provinces. During the last two years we have already spent in this way somewhere about Rs.40 crores. The problem of food cannot be solved unless the problem of agricultural development is taken in hand on an all-India basis. And unless this entry finds a place in the Union List, it will not be possible for the Government of India to prepare and execute all-India plans of agricultural development.

Apart from this aspect, the question, in relation to the food problem, has another bearing. India is primarily an agricultural country, and if we want to raise the standard of life of our people, we must see that the standard of life of the agriculturists--and by the agriculturists, I mean the agricultural labourer and the peasants--is improved. The structure of Indian economy cannot be reformed if agricultural economy in India is not reformed, and agricultural economy can only be reformed by all-India plans which must be planned by the Centre and executed by the Centre and the Provinces acting in co-ordination. We have seen that the Government of India, with a view to increasing the production in the field of manufacture, have given incentives by way of exemption of various taxes. Similarly, in order to improve agricultural production also, it will be necessary for the Government of India to legislate and give incentive to the agriculturists. In America such legislation has been undertaken. There, the minimum fair price for the producer has been assured. Here also we must have the minimum fair price legislation so as to bring home to the agriculturists and the peasants that they will be able to sell whatever they produce at a minimum fair price and thus get an adequate return for their efforts.

On these grounds, Sir, I support the amendment moved by Shri Saksena and I commend it for the acceptance of the Drafting Committee.

The Honourable Dr.B.R.Ambedkar: Sir, with regard to the amendment to have a new entry 64A, I may say that this matter was placed before the Premiers' Conference and the the Premiers' Conference did not agree to the proposal.

With regard to the question of distribution of food, we have provided in article 306, that for a period of five years, the Centre may have control over the distribution of food.

With regard to the second amendment, namely, the introduction fo the new entry 64B...........

Mr. President: That has not been moved.

The Honourable Dr.B.R.Ambedkar: Sir, I cannot accept the amendment moved.

Mr. President: I shall put the amendment to vote. The question is:

"That after entry 64 of List I, the following new entry be added:-

'64A. Co-odination of the development of agriculture, including animal husbandry, forestry and fisheries and the supply and distribution of food".

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: Amendment No.264, Mr. Saksena.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: Sir, I beg to move:

"That after entry 64-A of List I, the following new entry be added:-

64-B. Regulation of trade and commerce in and of the production, supply, price and distribution-

(a) of goods which are the products of industries whose regulation under the control of the Union is declared by  Parliament by law to be necessary or expedient in the public interest;

(b) of any other goods whose regulation similarly is declared by Parliament by Law to be necessary or expedient in the public interest."

Here, I would like to draw the attention of the Drafting Committee to the fact that a similar suggestion is contained in the recommendations of the Ministry of Industry and Supply, where they have suggested that in the Seventh Schedule in the Union List, such an entry as I have suggested should be provided for. In fact, I may refer the very page--page 14 of this booklet containing the comments of the various Ministries on the Draft Constitution. There the Ministry states-

"For effective implementation by the Union Government of the industrial policy announced by the Government of India on the 6th April, 1948, and for other reasons, it is necessary to invest the Union Government with certain powers over tradeand commerce in respect of and the production, supply, price and distribution fo the goods produced by the industries to be brought under Central regulation and certain other goods such as wholly imported articles or agricultural products. The following additional item is, therefore, suggested:

'Regulation of trade and commerce in and of the production, supply, price and distribution-

(a) of goods which are the products of the industries whose regulation under the control of the Union is declared by Parliament by law to be necessary or expedient in the public interest;

(b) of any other goods whose regulation similarly is declared by Parliament by law to be necessary or expedient in the public interest."

Sir, apart from the fact that this amendment has the support of the Ministry of Industry and Supply, it should also be obvious to anybody that within the last four or five years our experience has shown us that unless there is this power to regulate trade and commerce and also production and distribution, there will be chaos in the country. Even the most important questions of the supply of food and clothing and other necessaries of life, cannot be tackled on a mere provincial basis, and they must be tackled on an all-India scale. So I say this power should be given to the Union by means of an adequate provision here in the Union List. Otherwise the Centre will not have the necessary power. I think it is a most important power which should be given to the Centre. Besides........

Mr.President: Will it suffice if I point out that there is a proposal for a new entry--entry 35 A in the Concurrent List? That covers this point, I think.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: Is it an amendment, Sir?

Mr. President: Yes, amendment No.142.

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari (Madras: General): That amendment covers the first part of the honourable Member's amendment.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: It is in the Concurrent List, of course, but it is not as wide as the one that I have suggested. I personally prefer this power to be taken by the Centre alone.

Mr. President: Very well.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: Besides, the words that I have suggested give much larger powers to the Centre than it is proposed by the amendment in the Concurrent List. I suggest the experience of the past four or five years is sufficient reason for taking this thing in the hands of the Centre. Sir, I do not think that we should be afraid of investing the Centre with power in regard to these vital things, like food and clothing. Otherwise, I do not think we will be able to meet the needs of the country in the manner we desire. At present also the Central Government has got the power to lay down uniform policies in regard to these matters. But the Centre should also have the power to make all parts of the country to fall in line with the Central Policy so as to meet all the needs of the country.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: With regard to the first part of the amendment, there is the proposal fo the Drafting Committee to put this matter in the Concurrent List, and if amy Friend Prof. Saksena were to examine the Concurrent List, he will find that there is an entry corresponding to entry 64B, (a) in entry 35A of the Concurrent List.

With regard to (b), it is a matter of controversy and the Drafting Committee has not yet come to any conclusion on the question. The Drafting Committee feels that (a) is a perfectly logical consequence of the power which we have already given to Parliament to declare certain industries of national importance. If Parliament has the power to declare certain industries to be of national importance, then Parliament should also have the power to regulate the goods and the products of such industries. But, (b) is about goods of industries other than those declared by Parliament to be of national importance. As I said, that is a matter of some controversy and the Drafting Committee has not come to any conclusion. I suggest Prof. Saksena may allow the matter to stand over till we reach entry 35 in the Concurrent List.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: I have no objection to waiting.

Mr. President: Then it is held over.

Entry 65

Mr. President: There is an amendment No.265 of Prof. Saksena.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: Entry 65 is in relation to regulations for labour and safety in mines and oil fields. Sir, I move:

"That in entry 65 of List I, after the word 'Regulation' the words 'and welfare' be inserted."

The entry will now read:

"Regulation and welfare of labour and safety in mines and oilfields......"

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari: If it would help my Friend I would draw his attention to entry 26 in the Concurrent List which seems to meet his requirements. It reads: "Welfare of labour: conditions of labour: etc..".

Mr. President:It is an amended form of 26 of which notice has been given by Dr. Ambedkar.

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari: It fits in with his requirements.

Prof. Shibban Lal Saksena: But mines and oilfields are Central subjects, and if you want that labour welfare should be in the Concurrent List, I have one objection to it. I was not in the House at the time, but I wanted that labour legislation, labour laws, etc., should also be Central subjects. From my experience of labour work, I can say that labour legislation is almost in a chaotic condition all over the country and in the various provinces. s In some provinces we have some labour laws, in others there are very different laws. In the same industry, like the sugar industry in Bihar, the U.P. and Bombay there were different labour laws in different provinces. Even in the textile industry in Bombay, there are certain laws but there are different laws for this industry in U.P. and other places. Even the Industrial Dispute Act has been modified by laws made by the U.P. and other Provincial Governments.

This leads to chaotic conditions. Therefore labour Legislation should come into the Central List. I do not want them in the Provincial List. Labour should be a Central subject and the Central Government should be able to deal with it; otherwise there will not be similar treatment of labour in the different provinces.

Shri H.V.Kamath: Sir, with regard to amendment No.215, (List III-Sixth Week) it was intended to apply also to entry 65. It is likely that the copy I sent to the office mentioned entry 66 only. I had intended that it should apply to both entries 65 and 66.

Mr. President: You want to move it?

Shri H.V.Kamath: Yes-for 35 also.

Mr. President: Very, well: you may do so. But I do not know how it fits in.

Shri H.V.Kamath: Sir, I move (with reference to entry 65 as well with your kind permission):

"That with reference to amendment No.37...."

Mr. President: It has nothing to do with 65. It applies only to 66. There is no amendment to entry 65.

Shri H.V.Kamath: It is with your kind permission that I am now moving this amendment to entry 65. Sir, I move:

"That with reference to amendment No.37 of List I (Sixth Week), in entry 66 of List I and entry 65 of List I, for the words 'and oilfields' the words 'oilfields, and submarine regions' be substituted."

I do not know why "submarine regions" have been excluded from the scope of this entry. Only the other day we adopted an article whereby all lands and all minerals underlying the ocean were vested in the Centre. I am told on reliable authority that the Pearl Industry, to mention only one instance, could be very usefully developed in the Cutch region, and I am sure that in many other parts of our oceanic areas the pearl industry stands a good chance of development in the future. Japan has developed this industry very considerably, and some Japanese scientists or experts have observed that India also can produce pearls of a very high quality. This will be a submarine industry and it will be as hazardous an occupation as labour is in mines and oilfields. I therefore feel that when you are regulating for labour and for their safety in mines and oilfields, ti is equally necessary and essential in the public interest to regulate for labour and its safety in those industries which we might develop in submarine regions. As I have already said, that is an equally dangerous occupation and the House might consider whether it is not desirable that an amendment to this effect should be incorporated in entry 65. I move, Sir, this amendment, seeking to incorporate submarine regions in entry 65 and commend it to the House for its consideration.

The Honourable Dr. B.R.Ambedkar: With regard to Mr. Kamath's amendment, it seems to me to be quite unnecessary because the word "oilfields" is used in general terms. Wherever it occurs, the Centre shall have jurisdiction. If an oilfield can occur below water..........

Mr. President: He says "and submarine regions".

Shri H.V. Kamath: I say "mines, oilfields and submarine regions".

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: What my friend has in mind is diving operations.

Shri H.V. Kamath: No the Pearl Industry.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: All I can say is that I shall consider that matter.

Mr. President: Then I will first put the amendment moved by Prof. Saksena. The question is:

"That in entry 65 of List I. after the word 'Regulation' the words 'and welfare' be inserted."

The amendment was negatived.

Shri H.V. Kamath: In view of Dr. Ambedkar's assurance, I do not press my amendment now. It may be considered by the Drafting Committee.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That entry 65 stand part of List I."

The motion was adopted.

Entry 65 was added to the Union List.

Entry 66

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That in entry 66 of List I, the words 'and oilfields' be deleted."

It has already been transferred to entry 63.

Shri H.V. Kamath: Mr. President, I move, Sir:

"That with reference to amendment No.37 of List I (Sixth Week), in entry 66 of List I, for the words 'and oilfields' the words 'oilfields, and submarine regions' be substituted."

The effect of it will be not only to include submarine regions in this entry but also to oppose the amendment of Dr. Ambedkar seeking to delete the word "oilfields". The point of my amendment is this. Dr. Ambedkar rightly pointed out that this matter of oilfields has been comprised in entry 63. But as the House will see, entry 63 which we have adopted a few minutes ago is to regulate and develop oilfields and mineral oil resources. Entry 65 which we have already passed refers to regulation of labour and safety in mines and oilfields. This is a matter different from the matter included in 63, because the qualifying clause is to the effect "to the extent to which such regulation and development under the control of the Union is declared by Parliament by law to be expedient in the public interest". I do not know whether the retention of the words "mineral development" and omission of the word "oilfields" would be in consonance with entry 63 which the House has adopted. That entry refers to mineral oil resources. And here we have got mineral development. "Mineral development" refers to mineral resources in general. If there are adequate, valid and cogent reasons for retaining the words "mineral development" in entry 66 I see no reason why the word "oilfields" also should not be retained, because the particular term "oils" is only a part of the general term "minerals", scientifically speaking.

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari: It is there in 63.

Shri H.V. Kamath: I know that. My Friend would, I am sure, have made a different remark if he had closely followed what I was pointing out. I was pointing out that when we have mentioned oil resources in 63 and when we have also mentioned mineral development as a general matter there will be no harm in retaining the word "oilfields" also just to make it absolutely clear. I see no absolute necessity for it, but there will be no harm in retaining the word "oilfields".

Shri Brajeshwar Prasad (Bihar: General)" Sir, I beg to move:

"That in amendment No.3555 of the List of Amendments, for the proposed entry 66 of List I, the following be substituted:-

'66. Superintendence, direction, control, regulation, development and preservation of mines, oilfields and mineral resources including such questions as-

(a) the regulation and safety of mining employees,

(b) proprietory rights in or over lands where mines and mineral resources are found to exist,

(c) power to frame rules regarding terms and conditions for grant of prospecting licenses and mining leases,

(d) power to modify conditions and terms of existing leases,

(e) power to make rules for proper working of mines with due regard to the health and welfare of workmen employed in mines,

(f) power to establish Inspectorate of Mines to enforce these rules,

(g) power to enforce improved mining methods to ensure conservation of minerals and mineral products;

(h) power to control production, supply and movement of minerals and mineral products, and

(i) any other matter connected with mines, oilfields and mineral resources which may be declared by Parliament to be necessary or expedient in the public interest"

My whole aim in moving this amendment is to make redundant entry 28 of List II. I am clear in my own mind that Mines constitute a vital subject as important as Defence, Foreign Affairs and Communications. I am of opinion that if the system of defence is going to be organised on sound line then Mines must remain a Central subject. I do not want to give the Provinces the power even to "regulate mines and oilfields and mineral development subject to the provisions of List I" as has been provided for in entry 28 of List II.

A question has been raised in another connection on the floor of the House to what will become of Provincial Autonomy. It is a matter of no concern to me. We have not come here to safeguard the interests of Provincial Governments. We have come here to include those subjects in List I which we consider to be necessary and vital-subjects which are in consonance with the needs of the modern age. I am of opinion that Mines should be nationalised, but at this stage I am only saying that the power of legislation should remain exclusively vested in the Central Government.

(Amendment No.3555 was not moved).

Shri Lakshminarayan Sahu: (Mr. president, I wish to move the amendment which reads:

"That for entry 66 in List I, the following be substituted:-

'66. Power to frame rules regarding terms and conditions for grant of prospecting licences and mining leases, power to modify conditions and terms of existing leases, power to make rules for proper working of mines with due regard to physical safety of workmen employed in mines, their health and welfare, power to establish inspectorate of mines to enforce these rules, power to enforce improved mining methods to ensure conservation of minerals and mineral products, power to control productions, supply and movement of minerals and mineral products."

I have included everything in this amendment. The amendment just moved by Shri Brajeshwar Prasad contains all my points. But he wants to give so much power to the Centre, which I do not want to give. I, therefore, come to the State List, where I have suggested:-

Entry 28.

"That for entry 28 in List II the following be substituted:-

'28. Grant of prospecting licences and mining leases in accordance with the rules framed by the Union Government as provided in entry 66 of List I and collection and appropriation of all revenue therefrom."

I do not want to say much regarding this, I would only say that in India, 'mining' should be included in the central subjects. There is no doubt, that the Centre should be given power to unify the rules regarding the prospecting licences. I wish to say this emphatically, that the Centre should enact such rules as may be applicable to all the provinces uniformly.

Till the Centre is empowered to do so, there will be a lot of difficulty in obtaining the prospecting licences, and there would be differences in the conditions in various provinces in this respect. Hence I wish that this amendment of mine and my other amendment on State List II, should both be read together and considered in this connection.)

Shri Kuladhar Chaliha (Assam: General): Mr. President, Sir, it is really very difficult to agree with mr. Brajeshwar Prasad, but in this particular case I seem entirely to agree with him and I think his amendment is a great improvement on the provisions adumbrated by Dr. Ambedkar--it is rather all embracing and seems to cover all that is necessary for a provision on mines and oilfields.

We know in our part of the country some of the owners of coal mines have started producing less and less and we do not
know the reason. The quality is also getting worse and worse. If you order any coal from them you get the worst quality. Therefore it is necessary that they should have a standard of the quality of coal they should supply to the clients. Similarly, in the oilfields also they are producing less and less. It is said that in Digboi they are not working to full capacity and that they are doing it with a purpose. It is said that unless sooner or later we have a target that so much should be produced in a certain time we will get probably much less than what we used to. Even now we know that we are getting from Digboi much less than what we used to a few years ago; we do not get even 30 per cent. of our Indian supply from Digboi, whereas formerly we used to get more. It is said that the British owned wells are intentionally doing it and they are trying to transfer their plants to Pakistan and other places.

Therefore, this amendment of Mr. Brajeshwar Prasad will give us ample power to control them and se that they produce properly and they produce the quantity we want and not the quantity they allege that they can produce. As such, for the first time in the history fo this Constituent Assembly I have been able to agree with Mr. Brajeshwar Prasad who, of course, generally holds views contrary to those of the majority. Sir, I support his amendment.

Shri H.V. Kamath: I hope, Sir, that the Drafting Committee will bear in its sub-conscious mind that part of my amendment referring to submarine regions.

Mr. President: It is expected that the Members of the Drafting Committee have heard what the honourable Member has said.

Shri Jagat Narain Lal (Bihar: General): Mr. President, I do not want to take much of the time of the House over this matter. I simply wanted to oppose the amendment - I am sorry-moved by Mr. Brajeshwar Prasad. The amendment that he has moved chooses on the one hand to give very wide powers to the Centre, on the other hand his amendment is in the shape of rules or bye-laws which can be framed after an Act is passed. I do not see why such detailed clauses and sub-clauses should be added to the Constitution. I support what Dr. Ambedkar has moved for the reason that that divides the powers between the Centre and the Provinces. The Centre has such powers as are necessary or as will appear necessary for the purpose of regulating the easy working of mines and mineral resources, and the Provinces will also have power which they ought to exercise for the purpose of regulating and developing mines and mineral resources in their territories. Therefore, I support the amendment moved by Dr. Ambedkar and oppose the amendments moved to them.

Shri Brajeshwar Prasad: Dr. Ambedkar's amendment deletes the word "oilfields".

Shri Jagat Narain Lal: The words "the oilfields" have to be deleted as those words have come earlier.

Mr. President: Would you like to say anything?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: No, Sir, I would not like to accept any amendment.

Mr. President: We will take the amendment by Mr. Brajeshwar Prasad.

Shri Brajeshwar Prasad: Sir, I beg to withdraw it.

The amendment was, by leave of the Assembly, withdrawn.

Mr. President: Then amendment No.3556 on the Printed List, moved by Mr. Sahu.

The question:

"That for entry 66 in List I, the following be substituted:-

'66. Power to frame rules regarding terms and conditions for grant of prospecting licences and mining leases, power to modify conditions and terms of existing leases, power to make rules for proper working of mines with due regard to physical safety of workmen employed in mines, their health and welfare, power to establish inspectorate of mines to enforce these rules, power to enforce improved mining methods to ensure conservation of minerals and mineral products, power to control productions, supply and movement of minerals and mineral products."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: Then amendment No.215.

Shri H.V. Kamath: I leave it to the wisdom of the Drafting Committee.

Mr. President: Very well, then; that is to the wisdom of the Drafting Committee.

Then the amendment moved by Dr. Ambedkar. The question is:

"That in entry 66 of List I, the words 'and oilfields' be deleted."

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 66, as amended, was added to the Union List.

Entry 67

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That for entry 67 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

'67. Extension of the powers and jurisdiction of members of a police force belonging to any State to any area not within such State, but not so as to enable the police of one State to exercise powers and jurisdiction in any area not within that State without the consent of the Government of the State in which such area is situated; extension fo the powers and jurisdiction of members of a police force belonging to any State to railway areas outside that State."

Mr. President: There is an amendment by Sardar Hukum Singh for deletion. That need not be moved. Dr. Deshmukh has an amendment to this entry which I understand he is not moving. So I will put the motion to vote

The question is:

"That for entry 67 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

'67. Extension of the powers and jurisdiction of members of a police force belonging to any State to any area not within such State, but not so as to enable the police of one State to exercise powers and jurisdiction in any area not within that State without the consent of the Government of the State in which such area is situated; extension of the powers and jurisdiction of members of a police force belonging to any State to railway areas outside that State."

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 67, as amended, was added to the Union List.

Entry 68

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: I move:

"That for entry 68 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

"Elections to Parliament and to Legislatures of States and of the President and Vice-President; and Election Commission to superintendent, direct and control such elections."

Shri H.V. Kamath: Mr. President, I move:

"That in amendment No.38 of List I (Sixth Week), in the proposed entry 68 of List I, for the words, 'Election Commission' the words 'Election Commission and Regional Commissioners' be substituted."

This amendment becomes necessary in view of the change which has been made in entry 68. The entry as it originally stood in the Draft Constitution ran thus:

"Elections to parliament and of the President and Deputy President; and Election Commission to superintend, direct and control such elections."

The new entry reads as follows:-

""Elections to parliament and to Legislatures of States and of the President and Vice President; and Election Commission to superintend..........

That is to say, we have incorporated the elections to Legislatures of States in the proposed new entry 68.

The House will recollect that a few weeks ago we adopted articles 289, 289A, 289B etc. If my honourable colleagues will take the trouble of turning to article 289, they will find that it provides, firstly, for the appointment fo an Election Commission without mentioning Regional Commissioners. Regional Commissioners came into the picture in clause (3) of article 289. That clause lays down that, before each general election to the House of the People and to the Legislative Assembly of each State and before the first general election, and thereafter before the biennial election to the State Council, the President shall also appoint, after consultation with the election commission, such Regional Commissioners as he may consider necessary to assist the Election Commission in the performance of the functions enjoined on it by clause (2) of that article. Clause (4) vests certain powers in Parliament as regards the condition of service and tenure of office not merely of the Election Commissioners but also of Regional Commissioners. The Regional Commissioners are not a part of the Election Commission. They come into the picture only when the elections to the State Assembly and Council are about to commence. I, therefore, feel that this point must be made absolutely clear in the new draft of entry 68 which replaces the old one. It includes elections to Parliament as well as to State Legislatures for which purpose we have got Regional Commissioners. There is, therefore, this lacuna in entry 68. I hope the House will see its way to accept my amendment.

Mr. President: There is an amendment to this standing in the name of Mr. Santhanam. I think it does not arise in view of the decision we have taken with regard to some other articles.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: It is unnecessary to accept this amendment, because the Election Commission will include Regional Commissioners also.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That in amendment No.38 fo List I (Sixth Week), in the proposed entry 68 of List I, for the words 'Election Commission' the words 'Election Commission and Regional Commissioners be substituted."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That for entry 68 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

'Elections to Parliament and to Legislatures of States and of the President and Vice-President; and Election Commission to superintendent, direct and control such elections."

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 68, as amended, was added to the Union List.

Entry 69 

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That for entry 69 of List I, the following entries be substituted:-

69. The emoluments and allowances and rights in respect of leave of absence of the President and Governors; the salaries and allowances of the Ministers of the Union and of the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of the Council of States and of the Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the House of the People; the salaries and allowances of the members of Parliament; the salaries, allowances and the conditions of service of the Comptroller and Auditor-General of India.

69A. The privileges, immunities and powers of each House of Parliament and of the members and the Committees of each House."

Mr. President: There is an amendment to this, No.219 standing in the name of Mr. Kamath.

Shri H.V. Kamath: I do not want to move my amendment, but I would ask how Dr. Ambedkar has forgotten or lost sight of the Supreme Court Judges.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Their salaries etc., are provided for in the Schedule. We have said that their salaries shall be such as are specified in the Schedule.

Mr. President: Then amendment No.220 by Dr. Deshmukh. Does it not go more appropriately to the State List?

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: No, Sir. I move:

"That in amendment No.39 of List I (Sixth Week), after the proposed entry 69 of List I, the following new entry be added:-

69A. Privileges, immunities and powers of the members of the State Legislatures and their Committees."

Sir, this is consequential upon the amendment that I proposed when the article was being discussed. I had urged then that it would not be proper to leave the privileges, immunities and powers of the members of the State Legislatures to the individual State Legislatures. It would be better if Parliament decides on it, so that there could be common privileges, immunities and powers for the members of all the State Legislatures. That point of view was urged by me. I think that Dr. Ambedkar had not sufficient time to consider it and therefore he declined to accept it. I am now trying to urge this for his consideration and the consideration fo the Drafting Committee. This is eminently reasonable and proper, and I hope they will accept this as an addition to this entry and also keep this in mind when they modify the provisions already accepted by the House also. I think it is very necessary that the privileges should be uniform and that they should not differ from State to State.

Shri Brajeshwar Prasad: Hear, Hear.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: It is only proper that each Legislature should have the authority to define its own privileges, immunities and powers, and it is for that reason that we have provided that Parliament should have power to specify the privileges, immunities and powers of its own members, and the State Legislatures should have similar power with regard to their own members. I do not think that the whole power should be concentrated in the Centre. I should have thought that if Parliament passes an Act defining the privileges, immunities and powers of its members, the State Legislatures will probably follow suit and copy the thing verbatim with such minor amendments as they think desirable.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That in amendment No.39 of List I (Sixth Week), after the proposed entry 69 of List I, the following new entry be added:-

'69A. Privileges, immunities and powers of the members of the State Legislatures and their Committees."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That for entry 69 of List I, the following entries be substituted:-

69. The emoluments and allowances and rights in respect of leave of absence of the President and Governors; the salaries and allowances of the Ministers for the Union and of the Chairman and Deputy Chairman of the Council of States and of the Speaker and Deputy Speaker of the House fo the People; the salaries, allowances and the conditions of service of the Comptroller and Auditor-General of India.

69A. The privileges, immunities and powers of each House of Parliament and of the members and the Committees of each House."

The amendment was adopted.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That entry 69, as amended, stand part of List I."

The motion was adopted.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That entry 69A stand part of List I."

The motion was adopted.

Entry 69 and 69A, as amended, were added to the Union List.

Entry 70

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That at the end of entry 70 of List I, the words 'or Commissions appointed by Parliament' be added."

As it stands, the entry refers only to Committees.

Mr. President: I do not think that there is any other amendment to this

The question is:

"That at the end of entry 70 of List I, the words 'or Commissions appointed by Parliament' be added."

The amendment was adopted.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That entry 70, as amended, stand part of List I."

The motion was adopted.

Entry 70, as amended, was added to the Union List.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That after entry 70 of List I, the following entry be inserted:

'70A. The sanctioning of cinematograph films for exhibition."

This entry was originally placed in the Concurrent List. It is now proposed to put it in List I.

Mr. President: There are several amendments to this. Amendment No.221 by mr. Kamath wants the deletion of this entry. So it cannot be moved.

Shri H.V. Kamath: May I speak on that?

Mr. President: later.

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: Sir, I move:

"That in amendment No.41 of List I (Sixth Week), for the proposed new entry 70A of List I, the following be substituted:-

'70A. Regulation and control of the exhibition of cinema films."

All that I propose is to change the wording. I am unable to understand how the sanctioning of cinematograph films is a subject for legislation. If there is to be legislation, it would not be on sanctioning. Sanctioning of cinematograph films for exhibition is not a happy expression. We should also have power to control the exhibition and from that point of view I would recommend the wording I have suggested, viz "Regulation and control of the exhibition of cinema films." Sir, I move.

Mr. President: There is notice of an amendment which I received this morning, by Kaka Bhagwant Roy.

Kaka Bhagwant Roy: Sir, I do not want to move it.

Shri Raj Bahadur: Mr. President: Sir, I move:

"That in amendment No.41 of List I (Sixth Week), in the proposed new entry 70A of List I, the words 'The sanctioning of and 'for exhibition' be deleted."

I move this amendment in order to widen the scope fo the entry. If my amendment is accepted, the words that would remain would be only "cinematograph films". It is obvious that the power of merely sanctioning of cinematograph films is not enough for the Union Parliament. As a matter of fact, the functions of the Union Parliament in the case fo cinema films must be widened considerably. We know that the cinema--films have proved to be a powerful medium of instruction and national education. We know that they also play an important part in the formation and moulding of national character. It is therefore necessary not only from the point of view of art and artists, but also from the point of view of national education that we should widen the power vested in the Union Parliament in this matter. In modern times, the cinema films have replaced the drama and the theatre. They have come to constitute the medium of expression of the genius of our people. Therefore it is highly necessary that, in the interest of the art, the Union Parliament should be enabled to take an active interest in the improvement and progress of cinematograph films. As such in my humble opinion the entry should not be restricted simply and barely to the sanctioning of the films, it should cover a wider field. I submit, therefore, that my amendment should be accepted.

May I also express my doubt about the suitability of placing this entry after entry 70 which relates to the enforcement of attendance of persons for giving evidence or producing documents before committees of Parliament. It should have been better placed elsewhere. In my humble opinion it could very well come after entry 28 which relates to Telephones. Wireless, Broadcasting etc. It should have been better there instead of here. With these words I commend my amendment for acceptance.

Shrimati G.Durgabai: (Madras: General): Mr. President, Sir, while supporting the new entry 70A moved by Dr.B.R.Ambedkar I wish to make a few observations.

This new entry 70A seeks to give power to the Centre to administer on the exhibition of films and the objects of the Centre taking over this power to itself is to lay down certain uniform standards in the films that are exhibited all over this country and also outside this country. Of course, we think whether such a power is necessarily to be given to the Centre to take over this administration. We feel that many films that are dumped on the public today have either very little or no educational value. Nauseating songs and very cheap themes are highly detrimental to our culture. Therefore, it is highly necessary to raise the standards of these films and thus help the producers to exhibit better films which reflect the civilization of this country. That is the primary object, and also they should promote international understanding between the citizens of this country and also of the outside world.

Sir, the position today as it stands is that the Provincial Governments have got their censorship boards, and to my knowledge and information the censorship starts only after the film is completed and some lakhs of rupees have been wasted on them and the Centre acts only in an advisory capacity and whatever the Centre does in that capacity will have only a post-mortem effect. Therefore, Sir, keeping this object in view, we have got to introduce uniformity in the standards of the films that are to be exhibited in this country and also outside this country which would help promoting good harmony and reflect our culture and the civilization of this country.

Sir, while supporting this amendment, I should like to say that the provincial interests or the provincial censorship boards that are today functioning in this matter should be consulted and their interests should be taken into consideration and in every matter their advice and co-operation ought to e sought in censoring these films. Sir, a point may be raised against this power being given to the Centre whether the Centre would be able to deal with this matter, because there are different languages and different types of dialects in which these films are exhibited, whether the Centre could cope up with this power and deal with this matter effectively. There is some justification in this argument but anyhow I would like to say that the Centre should act so carefully in administering on this subject that while the provinces could produce and contribute to the international or national unity they could also preserve the type of culture peculiar to themselves.

Sir, in this matter we have got to know that the first step has already been taken. We have amended the Government of India Act to give power to the Centre; also we have passed a Bill in the Legislative session by classifying the films by introducing the system of A and U class service. Therefore this entry in this list is only a corollary to what we have done. Some objections have been raised. I think my honourable Friend Mr. Raj Bahadur raised a point, that the powers ought to be widened and he suggested the deletion of the words "The sanctioning of" and "for exhibition" and thereby enlarging the power. I should like to say we have got already the licensing authority today under which this could be done. I understand that his object is to see that the Centre could insist on the provinces to produce such films and also exhibit such films which have got an educative value along with the films that are exhibited today. This we could do under the power that we have got already and even the provinces are exercising it under their licensing power. The Centre has already passed a Bill to classify the films. Therefore, it is not quite necessary. So I feel that this entry might find favour with the House.

Shri Raj Bahadur: Do not these words essentially restrict and limit eh meaning of the whole thing?

Shrimati G. Durgabai: No, Sir, because the other powers which you have asked are already being exercised under the powers of both the provinces and the Centre.

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: What about the words I suggested "Regulation and control of the exhibition fo cinema films?"

Shrimati G. Durgabai: Even that would be exercised under the powers that we have got under our licensing authority; and the other matter about the protection fo children and other things, that is a matter for the Labour Department to deal with and not a subject-mater in this connection.

Shri H.V. Kamath: Mr. President, Sir, in pursuance of the spirit of my amendment which of course I could not move because it is a negative amendment, I wish to say that there is no adequate ground for shifting this entry from the Concurrent List to the Union List.

Shri TT. Krishnamachari: It has already been shifted in the Government of India Act.

Shri H.V. Kamath: It is unfortunate that Dr. Ambedkar made a bald statement moving his amendment and did not advance any cogent reason for the transfer of this entry from the Concurrent to the Union List. I am whole-heartedly in agreement with my honourable Friend Shrimati Durgabai that our films ought to reflect the genius and the culture of our nation. There can be no two opinions about that. There are, however, certain points which deserve some attention at the hands of this House while considering this matter of cinematograph films. These days the films produced are not mere silent films but they are, more often than not, talkies. Silent films have gone out of fashion, and talkies mean not merely moving pictures but also a lot of language and songs, conversations, monologues and dialogues and what not. Everyone is aware that when a particular film is exhibited in particular province the songs, monologue or dialogue or whatever else it may be, is translated into the language of the particular province in which it is sought to be exhibited. The question arises as regards the nuances and shades of meaning in every language. It is not possible for every person to be conversant with all the languages of the Union and every language has as I have said, got its own nuances, peculiar idioms and expressions. At present every province has its Provincial Board of Film Censors and the provincial people are more conversant with the languages of that province than members of a Central Board can possibly be, unless of course the Central Board included a member of every province or members who are well versed in the various languages of the Indian Union. That means it will be a very big Board.

My Friend Shrimati Durgabai referred to a Bill we passed in the last Budget Session of the Legislature. That Bill sought to categorise films into two classes--one for Universal exhibition, and the other for exhibition to adults only and not suited for children and adolescents. But the point which she sought to make out would be completely served if this matter of cinema films is included in the Concurrent List which seeks to give power to the States and the Centre and not merely exclusive power to the Union alone.

There is another aspect of the matter which might commend itself to the House, Customs, though our culture and civilisation are the same, vary from province to province and from State to State. My Friend Pandit Bhargava-- I hope my memory services me right--in the last Session fo the Legislative Assembly speaking on the Hindu Code Bill referred to certain practices prevailing in different parts of the union. In the South, marriages between the children of brother and sister are permissible. That is to say a man can marry his own uncle's daughter. But in the Punjab, Pandit Bhargava said, if such a thing happened the man will be cut to pieces. Suppose there is a film depicting or showing a marriage between a person and his uncle's daughter, it might be quite normal in a province like Madras or Bombay, but if it is exhibited in the Punjab people will be scandalised and shocked.

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: Those instances seldom occur.

Shri H.V. Kamath: It is not beyond the bounds of probability. Films may show the important social ceremony fo marriage, and therefore it is necessary in my judgement that powers should be given not merely to the Union but also to States in this regard so as to sit in judgement over cinema films. I, therefore, seek the deletion of this entry from this list and its transfer back to the Concurrent List. I feel that is the right place for this entry. On a suitable occasion, I will move an amendment in that connection when the Concurrent List comes up for consideration in the House.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Mr. President, Sir the object of bringing this entry which was originally in the Concurrent List to the Union List is two-fold, firstly to prescribe as far as possible a uniform standard for sanction of films; and secondly, to prevent an injury being done to any producer of a film whose film may not be sanctioned by any particular province by reason of some idiosyncrasy or by reason of some standards which are of an extraordinary character and do not conform to general standards which ought to be prevalent in a matter of sanctioning of Cinematograph. Therefore I think it is very necessary that this matter of sanctioning instead of being distributed between the Centre and provinces so that each province may go on prescribing its own standard and the Centre be required to pursuade each province to examine its standard and point out whether the standards are good or bad, it is much better to bring it over to the Union List. So far as the rest of the matter is concerned it is proposed to leave the entry 43 in List II as it is so that the provinces will retain all the control they have over theatres, dramatic performances and cinemas minus the question of sanctioning. I do not think that any injury will be caused to any particular interest by the proposal I have made. On the other hand, as I have stated there would be distinct advantages in concentrating the power of sanctioning in a single body like the Centre.

Shri Raj Bahadur: Only sanctioning?

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Once the Centre has sanctioned that the film is a good film and conforms to moral standards, I do not see any reason why there should be any further provision for the exhibition at all. The matter ends.

Mr. President: I put the amendment No.222 to vote.

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: I would like to withdraw it.

The amendment was, by leave of the Assembly, withdrawn.

Shri Raj Bahadur: I would like to withdraw my amendment No.266.

The amendment was, by leave of the Assembly, withdrawn.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That entry No.70A stand part of List I.""

The motion was adopted.

Entry 70A was added to the Union List.

Mr. President: There are certain new entries which are sought to be brought in here by Dr. Deshmukh. We may take them up at the end.

Dr. P.S. Deshmukh: They are more or less independent. I have no objection to their being taken up at the end.

Entry 71

Mr. President: There is no amendment to this. There is only notice of deletion by Sardar Hukam Singh.

Entry was added to the Union List.

Entry 72

Mr. President: Then we come to entry 72. There is no amendment to that either.

Entry 72 was added to the Union List.

Entry 73

Mr. President: Then comes entry 73. Dr. Ambeddkar.

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move:

"That for entry 73 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

'73. Inter-State trade and Commerce."

The words that follow these words in entry 73 are unnecessary, because there is a proposal to drop entry 33 of List II.

Mr. President: There is an amendment to this amendment No.226 of Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad.

Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad: I am not moving it.

Mr. President: Then there is no amendment to this entry. I put the entry as moved by Dr. Ambedkar, to the House. The question is:

"That for entry 73 of List I, the following entry be substituted:-

'73. Inter-State trade and Commerce."

The amendment was adopted.

Entry 73, as amended, was added to the Union List.

Entry 73-A

Mr. President: Then we come to entry 73A, and the amendment in the name of Dr. Diwakar. I take it that it is not moved. Then there is entry 73-A of Mr. Kamath-Inter-planetary travel.

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari: Sir, may I point out that if we talk about a provision for inter-planetary travel, it would be reducing the proceedings of the House to absurdity.

Shri H.V. Kamath: Sir, I am sure if my Friend Mr. Krishnamachari had kept himself abreast of the advance of science and not busied himself only with trade and commerce, he would not have made such a remark.

Mr. President: Have we reached a stage when the control of inter-planetary travel is necessary?

Shri H.V. Kamath: Yes, Sir, as I will try to show, in a few minutes. Sir, I move that.................

Shri T.T.Krishnamachari: Sir, I rise to a point of order. It is an impracticable proposition that my Friend is suggesting, and therefore it should not be moved.

Shri H.V. Kamath: After you have heard me, Sir, you may decide.

Mr. President: I will hear him first.

Shri H.V. Kamath: Sir, I beg to move:

"That with reference to amendment No.42 of List I (Sixth Week), after entry 73 of List I, the following new entry be added:-

(Laughter)

Sir, Members of the House are welcome to laugh. But fifty years ago, if anybody, had talked of radios and wireless sets, he would have been held up to derision and mocked at, and perhaps stoned. But today radios and wireless sets have become a matter of course, and of every day occurrence. I am sure Mr. Krishnamachari has got a wireless set of his own in his house. And it is even supposed to a mark of culture today to have a radio set in every house. Take television. Twenty years ago perhaps television would have been looked upon as an impossibility. But today in America television has become so very common that important meetings and lectures are televised and shown all over the country. With the rapid advance of science for which this century is famous- I am sure within the last fifty years there has been more advance in the various fields of science than in the previous five hundred years- what with researches in X-rays, medicine, jet propelled planes of which we hear so much today, we can expect many big changes in the near future. The advance has been remarkable, phenomenal, if I may use such a word. It was only the other day I read in an American paper-it was I think the New York Times-there was a news item that a Company had been established, or floated in the United States where applications for journeys to the moon had been invited. It was in dead earnest,-I am not referring to it as a jest. They hope to do the journey probably by rockets. Till a few years ago-

Shri R.K.Sidhva: (C.P. & Berar): Can you show me the paper?

Shri H.V. Kamath: Yes, if you will kindly come to my place.

Mr. President: I thought people go to the Chandralok after death.

Shri H.V. Kamath: Yes, Sir, I was having it in mind. The Gita itself does say.......

Tatra Chandramasam Jyotiryogi Prapya Nivartate.

I do not dispute the possibility of a Yogi going even bodily to the moon by the power to his Siddhis and coming back too. But apart from that, Sir, this has come within the range of possibility, and in a few years time, it is quite possible that there may be journeys to the moon, and the phrase "man in the moon" will lose all its significance. Id are say, when the earth becomes more and more populate and congested, and when science makes further advance, people may start colonising the moon or some of the other thinly populated planets of the solar system. If we keep our minds open to the possibilities of science, and if we do not shut our minds in the mists of prejudice and misapprehension to the phenomenal progress of science, I am sure the House will not take this matter as lightly as it is inclined to do today. I do not want to be a prophet, but i may venture to suggest that within the next twenty-five years, perhaps sooner, such things will not be derided or mocked at, as some of the friends here and inclined to today.

Shri B.L. Sondhi: (East Punjab; general): In the time of our successors, perhaps.

Shri H.V. Kamath: No, even in the life-time of Mr. Sondhi and myself.

I therefore suggest that this matter should not be included in the Concurrent List or in the State List, but it should be the exclusive jurisdiction of the Union, so that when the time comes, the Union will have the power to exercise complete control. Of course, Dr. Ambedkar, may say that this is covered by the entry regarding passports and visas, but I do not think so. These passports and visas deal only with travel on this, our planet-The Earth. But inter-planetary travel will become more and more important in the near future, and therefore it should find a place in the Union List, and I therefore commend my amendment for the earnest and dispassionate consideration fo the House.

Mr. President: There is an amendment of Mr. Nziruddin Ahmad about travels to the planets and the satellites. He is not content merely with this amendment. Do you want to move it?

Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad: Yes, Sir, because if this amendment which was just now moved, is accepted, it will be incomplete without my amendment. I shall take only one minute. I beg to move:

"That in List III (sixth week), with reference to amendment No.227 in the proposed new entry 73A the following be added at the end:-

'travel between the planets and the satellites and between the satellites."

Mr. President: You have given notice of it only this morning.

Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad: Yes, Sir, the difficulty was that I bought the amendment yesterday afternoon ready in my pocket, but forgot to deliver it to the office.

Mr. President: I am not objecting. Go on.

Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad: I submit that, though a dream of the future, inter-planetary travel is coming on very soon. We had a long time ago a very good novel by Jules Verne, "From the Earth to the Moon and a Trip round it," and his numerous novels on scientific subjects. His dream has come true in a large measure and modern scientists believe that inter-planetary travel is a practical proposition and will soon be a reality and could be undertaken on a commercial scale. Mr. Kamath's amendment has a loop-hole and a defect. His amendment provides for travel only from one planet to another and not from a planet to its satellites and between the satellites. So if inter-planetary travel is to be included in the list as it must, this amendment will also have to be accepted. Journey from the Earth to the Moon and back is likely to be the earlies achievement. But Mr. Kamath's amendment will not make it possible. My amendment should be accepted to make the original amendment complete. hope, Sir, if the amendment is to be rejected, it is rejected in a more satisfactory way by vote.

Mr. President: I do not suppose any further speech is necessary!

The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: I dot quite understand whether the proposals of my Friend rattle to matters which are unknowable or which relate to matters which are unknown. If they are unknown, then we have waste our time. But if they are unknown and not unknowable, then we have enough powers to deal with them. Why bother with any entry at all?

Mr. President: I will put Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad's amendment to the vote. The question is:

"That in List III (Sixth Week), with reference to amendment No.227 in the proposed new entry 73-A the following be added at the end:-

'travel between the planets and the satellites and between the satellites."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That with reference to amendment No.42 of List I (Sixth Week), after entry 73 of List I, the following new entry be added:-

The motion was negaived.

The Assembly then adjourned till Nine of the Lock on Thursday, the 1st September 1949.