News Update

Canara Bank and Dena Mark merger NOT on anvil: GovtPM calls for 'TB Mukth Bharat'; Govt to declare panchayat & blocks TB-freeFodder Scam - Laloo gets 14 years jail in 4th caseRoC registers more companies post-GST: MoSAadhaar is optional for drawing pension: MoS'Jan Suraksha' scheme: Govt launches new website for subscribersCBEC asks field formations to speed up recovery of Rs 11500 Crore arrearsGSTN takes several user-friendly stepsCbC Report - Mar 31 deadline not to apply to group entities u/s 286(4)Tariff war - China hits back at USA; imposes duty on goods worth USD 3 bnGST - January collections peak to Rs 89,000 CroreGovt amends e-waste management rules; New targets fixedOver 15 lakh e-insurance accounts opened till Mar 15, 2018E-Way Bill to come into force from April 1, Due dates prescribed for filing of GSTR-3B for April to June 2018Payment of CGST, IGST, UTGST under reverse charge exempted till 30.06.2018I-T - TDS certificate granting lower rate cannot abruptly be cancelled, based on Revenue's apprehensions that assessee may run into losses in future: HCMumbai Customs recovers 7 kg gold in three separate casesI-T - Failure of explicit communication of amended trust deed before Department, is no ground for withdrawal of its registration, till its charitable: ITATApex Court invokes contempt powers against advocate Nisha Priya Bhatia; Former AG Mukul Rohatgi appointed as amicus curiaeUGC grants Jindal Global Univ autonomous status, first private Univ in HaryanaSales tax - Kerosene returned back by RIL to BPCL after extracting N-Paraffin, will amount to 'fresh purchase' and not 'return stream', and hence taxable from prospective effect: HCAnti-dumping duty on 'Flat Base Steel Wheels' imported from China PR to continue till 25 March 2019Exemption from IGST and Compensation Cess under Advance Authorization Scheme and EPCG Scheme extended up to 01.10.2018FTP 2015-2020 - Advance Authorization - Self Ratification Scheme added in Handbook of ProceduresTaxing exports - An unintended missNational Advisory Council acts as 'Think Tank' on tourism: AlphonsCX - Allowing credit only to extent of tax paid by recipient assessee in respect of Manpower Supply service and denying credit of quantum of tax paid by service provider is not based on law: CESTATSmart India Hackathon 2018 - Grand Finale to be held simultaneously at 28 centers

Constitution Assembly Of India - Volume VIII

Dated: May 26, 1949

I believe,-I do not remember exactly-there are seven Muslim members on the Committee. Only two are opposed to my resolution; five are with me. The two who are against me are my Hon'ble friends Sir Saadulla and Mr. Jafar Imam. The five who are in favour are , Maulana Azad, Maulana Hifizur Rahman, Begum Aizaz Rasul, Mr. Husseinboy Laljee and myself. Mr. Laljee's views are well known. He opposed Mr. Jinnah. I know his views. In fact,he wrote to me once, "For God's sake do something to remove reservations." Therefore, I had an overwhelming majority. There was another member Syed Ali Zaheer. He is now an Ambassador; I know his views. He is also of the same view as I am.

The next point of my esteemed Friend Sir Saadulla is this. He says, `let us take the vote of the Muslim Members here.' That is a challenge thrown to us. I accept the challenge. I may remind my honourable Friend Sir Saadulla that when the Muslim members came here to Delhi for the first time there was a meeting of all the Muslim members in Western Court. All of them were present. I was the first man to have got up and said that there should be no reservation of seats. I sent my resolution to the Constituent Assembly when you, Sir, were presiding. I regret to say, except one, not a single member supported me. I found that the Muslims wanted reservation. So, I did not move my resolution. That was the first meeting in which the Muslims were against me. The next meeting was in the house of Nawab Muhammad Ismail, about which he also has told you, in 18, Windsor Place. There my view was accepted by an overwhelming majority. The same Muslim members who were present in the Western Court were present here also, and it was passed by an overwhelming majority that there should be no reservation of seats. See how the time had changed. The only member who opposed it was my honourable my honourable Friend had changed. The only member who opposed it was my honourable Friend Sir Saadulla. He is honestly of that opinion; I respect his view. I hope he will respect my view. He said, `no there must be reservation of seats'. But, one thing he said: `personally I am not in favour of reservation, but the Muslims want it'. Most humbly I wish to tell him that he is wrong. The Muslims do not want it. Sir Saadulla was the only opposing member. Then there was the Madras group. They are a group by themselves, Sir, I understand their opinion. They have throughout been saying, " No reservation, but separate electorates; let us have separate electorates." At the Western Court, they said, "let us have separate electorate," at Nawab Ismail Sahib's place also they asked for separate electorates and here also they ask for separate electorates. They are welcome to their opinion. But that there should be no reservation was passed by an overwhelming majority. All of us were present. And after that I sent in my amendment saying that the whole section be deleted or that there should be no reservation for Muslims.

Mr. President: Time is up.

Mr. Tajamul Hussain: I will finish soon. My resolution was for pure and simple joint electorates. Sir Saadulla is of the opinion that, though he personally does not want it, the people want separate electorates. I can assure him that he is not correct. The people do not want it.

Mr. President: The Honourable Member will please look at the clock. He has taken much time.

Mr. Tajamul Husain: I have to say all this because the challenge has been thrown. I will finish in a minute. I have here a list of all the members. Briefly it shows that there are 31 members from the Provinces and 2 from the States, making a total of 33 Muslims. Out of these, 4 are from Madras and I must say that many of the members are permanently absent. As they have migrated to Pakistan, especially all the members from the Punjab, they have gone, and out of the 5 from Bengal 3 have migrated. Now, coming to the list, 4 from Madras are for separate electorates. There are only 23 member on the roll of the Constituent Assembly. 4 are of separate electorates, 4 for reservation of seats, 1 for cumulative voting, I unknown and 13 entirely for joint electorate, with no reservation of seats. If you add those who are not with me, they will come to only 10 and we are 13, and if I add Mr. Lari who too is not for reservation of seats or separate electorates, our number would be 14. Actually today there are 15 members present. And of them, 4 are for reservation of seats, 3 for separate electorates and the rest 8 are with me. Even then I have a majority.

Sir, I am finishing now. I only want to add this, I would ask the majority community, not to thrust reservation on the Muslims. If you honestly and sincerely believe that it is a wrong thing, for god's sake, do not give us reservation. You knew that separate electorate was a wrong thing for the Muslims and for India, and you never consulted the Muslims. Sir Saadulla did not raise the objection that the Muslims were not consulted, and he accepted it, and why? Because honestly it was believed to be a bad thing for the country. We now say,"do not make us a minority community. Make us your equal partners, then there will be no majority or communities in India."

Now, finally I may be permitted to say one thing and that is a very serious thing which I have not spoken yet on the floor of this House. But I feel there are some people strongly and vehemently opposed to me, and therefore I must give a warning. As you know, Sir, among Muslims there are two sections, call them sub-communities if you like, they are Shias and Sunnis. Out of the 31 members from the Provinces, I have the honour to be the sole Shia in this House. Out of the 2 members from the States, it is fifty, fifty, as one comes from one State and he is Shia and the other is a Sunni. And I would like to tell you that throughout the Shias have been opposing separate electorates, and have been opposing reservation of seats. They have always been nationalists. I was president of the Bihar Provincial Shia Conference for ten years, and throughout we have consistently said that we want joint electorate, pure and simple. Recently on 31st December 1948, there was the All India Shia Conference, the 35th session in Muzaffarnagar in U.P. which was presided over by Sir Sultan Ahmed, whom everybody knows. And the resolution was unanimously passed there that there should be no separate electorates and no reservation of seats. I went from her to attend the conference, and I will read out just a portion from the Presidential Address:-

"The Draft Constitution provides that Reservations of Seats for Minorities will continue for ten years from now, by way of allowing handicap. It has been conceded in a kindly spirit of tolerance and fellow feeling and according to current principle of safeguarding the rights of minorities. From this point of view is it perfectly intelligible. But to my mind it appears that the disease of separation is thereby suffered to be prolonged and the germ will continue to be at work for these ten years, with all its after-effects, however mildly it may operate. This reservation in a sense is a measure of dealing softly with a long standing prejudice and curing a trouble as imperceptibly as possible and avoid creating any impression of lack of sympathy on the part of the majority legislators. Could we however not take courage in both hands and abolish even separation of seats along with its greater evil the separation of electorates. Let no separation linger in any form, however innocent. Let us grow into a full bloom of trustfulness and oneness, allowing no speak of, no suggestion whatever of separatism and uncompromising in the past. We should wake up once for all in the glowing dawn of a great living and the historic atmosphere of a new freedom and fellowship may well be expected to give us the boldness to accept a complete code of co-operative life.ill also be encouraged to demand it. Minority within a minority must be logically entitled to it and thus, far from adding and aiding unity, it will only serve to promote separatism

There is another ground why this speck of separatism should not be perpetuated. Other minorities w and create sectional strife, leading to untold religious, social and political complications. Reservation carries with it as a corollary the maintenance of a communal political organisation and this must be avoided at all costs."

Mr. President: That will do please.

Mr. Tajamul Hussain: Only one minute more. I have to say something very important.

Mr. President: No.

Shri L.S. Bhatkar (C.P. & Berar: General): *[Mr. President, Sir, on this auspicious occasion I too want to place my views before this Assembly. I wholly accept and welcome the proposal moved in this House by the Honourable Sardar Vallabhabhai Patel yesterday in the form of a report. India is very fortunate in having respectable and dignified leaders like Sardar Patel. They have fully solved to their credit the great problem with which the country was confronted. Some days back everyone would have taken it as an impossibility that the method of communal and general representation would end in India. Sardar Patel has, however, removed this impossibility and actually brought about the abolition of communal representation and for this all Indians ought to be extremely grateful to him.

This Constituent Assembly has declared time and again that India is a secular State. If in spite of this high ideal the communal representation had continued in the country the Constituent Assembly would not have been able

*[] Translation of Hindustani speech.

to fulfill its objective. This Constituent Assembly could not have absolved it self of this blame. It is only because of the confidence of Indians enjoyed by Sardar Patel that communal representation has been eradicated from the Constitution and seats have been reserved for ten years for the Scheduled Castes only.

I have no hesitation in saying that if we had removed even this provision from the Constitution, it would have been for the better. But because the Scheduled Castes are poor, uneducated and suffer because of their status in society and because of the prevailing social customs, it would have been unjust not to provide for them some special facility in the Constitution. It has been done because they are not capable of uplifting themselves. I hope that during the coming ten years the Scheduled Castes would be able to make progress with the co-operation of everyone amongst us and then it would be unnecessary to continue the special facilities we have granted them today. But the co-operation of other people is necessary to achieve the object. This proposal of Sardar Patel turns our thoughts to Mahatma Gandhi. The scheme envisaged in this proposal is in fact based upon the Poona Pact evolve by Mahatma Gandhi.

I know that we have very little time today and therefore I do not want to prolong my speech. I wanted to express my views about many things,but I would now say only this much that even now in no province the Scheduled Castes are receiving as much help as the Government of India wants to give them. It is necessary to make arrangements for their free education, for giving the financial aid for education and for providing government service to those who are educated among them. There are at present difficulties in making these arrangements and no heed is paid to them. This creates discontent among the people which in the long run takes a political form to the detriment of the country as a whole. But I am confident that Sardar Patel will soon remove these difficulties also.

In conclusion, I once more thank Sardar Patel and extend my full support to his motion.]

Mr. President: As will be seen by honourable Members I am allowing time to the speakers of minority communities to have their say.

Shri Mahavir Tyagi (United Provinces:General): Sir, what about those persons who have differences with the proposal? They must also have their chance.

Mr. President: I have given chances also to those who wanted to speak against the resolution.

Sardar Sochet Singh (Patiala & East Punjab States Union): Sir, I take this opportunity to extend unqualified support to the motion moved by the Honourable Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. The inclusion of backward sections among the Sikhs in the category of scheduled classed for all political purposes is a happy decision over which the Minorities Advisory Committee deserves to be congratulated. It is a matter for regret that the sikh society could not altogether succeed in eradicating class and sectional distinctions which it was meant to wipe out. The deep-rooted and age-long class consciousness prevailing among the sister communities had a great deal to do with the existence and prevalence of this unhappy state of affairs among the Sikhs, but taking things as they are, the Advisory Committee could not do better than to recommend and this House to accept the extension of the same rights and privilege to members of the scheduled classes regardless of whether they profess this religion or that. The recommendation is doubly welcome on account of the removal of discrimination which should not have been allowed to continue particularly on the basis of religion. I maintain that the Advisory Committee could not do otherwise, if as advance consistent with the establishment of a secular State had to be made. The Sikhs are not alien to the conception and experience of a secular State. The State of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, though not a democracy, was secular in concept and practice in as much as a large proportion of his ministers and high government functionaries were Hindus and Muslims. The court language too was Persian. Paradoxically enough, the Sikh Raj was not a theocratic Raj and reflected hundred per cent. secularly and cosmopolitanism of the times. The Sikhs are essentially a democratic people and will always feel more at home in a genuinely secular atmosphere.

I am happy that the undemocratic demands regarding special safeguards, reservation, weightages and protection have not been taken into account. The Sikhs are an enterprising energetic and hard-working people who do not dread competition in the open market whether it is in a spheres political, economic or administrative. We can rub shoulders with our countrymen in every walk of life. We do not want to move, in tin shoes and breathe in heated or air conditioned chambers. We who have, by sheer dint of national deeds and services, earned the title of protectors of Indian culture, civilisation and social order against the tyranny of alien rulers of the times should not feel very happy at the prospect of placing ourselves in the position of soliciting protection. Apart from the point of self-respect and prestige which matter a very great deal where Sikhs are concerned, I venture to ask, against whom do we seek protection? Protection against our countrymen who have been our comrades-in-arms in the country's battle against foreign rule? Protection against democracy for which our faith has struggle and fought for centuries? Protection against Hindus for whose sake Guru Teg Bahadur willingly and cheerfully laid down his life in this very in this very capital of India? The Sikh religion and society have fulfilled an important historical role in this country and are sure not only to hold their own but to serve the essential purpose for which these were created by the Gurus in all difficult times which the country may have to face in future. I do not agree with those of my co-religionists who think and feel that after the attainment of independence by our country, the Sikhs have outlived their usefulness and have now to be lodged and preserved in the sanctuary of safeguards, protection, reservation and weightages. I spurn that idea. The undemocratic and outmoded devices which were struck upon by the Britisher to prolong and stabilise his hold on the country should be courageously smashed and buried. Communal outlook and representation are the least suitable for minorities as they are calculated to perpetuate their unfavourable position in relation to the majority. Our religion is not vulnerable in any respect, and it is lack of appreciation and comprehension of its basic virtues and merits to suggest that it is in native land and atmosphere: As long as faith in one God, liberty, equality and brotherhood of man, courage to oppose tyranny and aggression against the poor and down-trodden, and the upholding of moral law at the risk of life are needed in this world, the Sikhs wanted was social justice and proper understanding of their legitimate aspirations which happily they have received abundantly at the hands of the architects of India's destiny- I mean the Honourable Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru and the Honourable Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel. It is the statesmanship and large-hearted sympathies of these noble souls which have made it possible for the Sikhs to shed their isolationist and communalistic tendencies and enjoy an equal partnership with other communities in the prosperity of the country. The constitution of the country makes full provision for the equality of treatment that the Sikhs seek and they would therefore be prepared and determined to cast their lot with their countrymen Hindus, Muslims, Christian, Parsees and others. They have got a fair field and no favour that they sought. The question of language and linguistic provinces and re-settlement of refugees will, I believe receive due consideration in the appropriate forums and the competitive system of recruitment to services will give us equal opportunity with our countrymen to attain the attainable on merit and fitness.

The Sikhs must feel rightly proud and happy that the Indian National Congress have been drawing freely upon the history and methods of the Gurus in its struggle against the British Raj. Under the inspiration, superior wisdom and guidance of the Father of the Nation, the Congress religiously observed and followed the principle and practice of non-violence taught and practised by the Sikh Gurus from the first to the ninth, and in the recent past employed the alternative method of "Police action in Hyderabad" and "resistance to aggression in Kashmir" on the lines indicated and pursued by Guru Gobind Singh who enunciated dictum.

Chokar az hamen heelte dar guzasht Halal ast burdan beh shamsheer dast meaning thereby that when all peaceful means fail it is legitimate to unsheath the sword. I am sure, with the establishment of more harmonious relationship among the faiths and communities in the new set-up of our country, there will be more and more opportunities to think alike and work together in the service of the country and its people. With these words, I commend the motion for the acceptance of the House.

Maulana Hasrat Mohani (United Provinces: Muslim): Sir, I have come forward today to give my entire support to the motion of Sardar Patel. I am really glad to do so, because recently I have had occasions to differ from him, though very reluctantly.

Sir, I opposed the principle of reservation of seats at a time when the Congress Party was in its favour. At that time the excuse put forward by the Congress Party was this. "We do not like this method of reservation of seats, but we have to show some concessions to the Muslims, and, therefore, we want to retain it for at least ten years." Even then I said-I am reading from the Official Report of the proceedings of the 4th January 1949,-"We refuse to accept any concession. In case the majority party, or the Congress Party, accepts reservation of seats, its claim of creating of creating a secular State and of putting an end to communalism would be falsified."

Now, while giving my entire support to this motion, I come to the amendments proposed by some of my Madras friends. My opposition is based on the fact that they want to revive the Muslim League. The Muslim League is no more. Mr. Mohammad Ismail is proclaiming the existence of the All-India Muslim League. I ask, "Where is that Muslim League?" Let us once and for all decide that we will not have any communal parties among us. If we are to establish a true democratic state, then there is no room for any religious or communal parties. As everybody knows, democracy means majority rule and therefore it follows that minorities will have to submit to the decisions of the majority. Now, sir, what is the reason for minorities submitting themselves to the decisions of the majority? They do so on the supposition that it would be possible for them at some future date, with the change of public opinion in their favour they may occupy the seat of Government and in that case the erstwhile majority will become a minority and the minority will become the majority. So this democratic system can work only with political parties. If we have only communal parties or parties based on religion, the whole object of democracy will remain unfulfilled. If we have Muslim Parties, Christian Parties and Sikh Parties, then what will be the result? How can Christian Parties and Sikh Parties, then what will be the result? How can they expect to become the majority party under a democratic system of Government? When they cannot become the majority party, it is hopelessly absurd to allow the formation of parties on communal or religious basis. Therefore it is no use on the part of my friends from Madras or the Sikhs, Christians or Parsis to form communal parties. Under democratic Government they must form political parties. My advice to my Muslim friends has always been to discard communalism once for all. When there is no reservation of seats, they will be compelled either to form a distinct political party and work in coalition with other political parties or be annihilated. They will have no place in public life. I submit that the Muslims should form a distinct political party called the Independent or the Independent Socialist party. I would prefer to call it the Azadi party allied to the party organised by my Friend Shri Sarat Chandra Bose. They can form a coalition party with that left-wing party. In that case only my Muslim friends can expect to take part in democratic Government. Even if the Nationalist party is in the majority at some future date. In that case, the Congress or the Nationalist Party will become the minority. Unless and until we do that, there is no hope for any minority which does not want coalition with left-wing parties. No single party, socialist or communist or other if it wants to oppose and come forward and contest elections against the Nationalist Party, can succeed. We have the example of the Socialist Party's defeat in the United Provinces. Therefore it is necessary for political parties other than the Nationalist party to form a coalition if they want to become the majority party and run the administration. In that case, if we form political parties there will be the question of safeguarding the interests of political party. The political party may be socialist or communist or Forward Bloc. If they do not allow even this concession of proportional representation, even a party like the Socialist Party who got 35 per cent. of votes in the elections in the United Provinces, could not get single seat. My position is quite different from that of Mr. Lari on one point. He seems to suggest that if this concession is granted, if the political parties are allowed proportional representation, he would not have any reservation of seats. If they do not allow even this concession then it seems that he will either change his opposition or become a neutral in this respect. He said so. My position is quite different. I say that even if they do not allow any proportional representation, I do not want reservation of seats for the reason that before long, if there is a coalition among the left-wing parties, the Nationalist party itself will ask for his proportional representation. The Nationalist Party will then cry for proportional representation. In case many of the left-wing parties unite, it will not be possible for the Nationalist Party to beat them at the polls. The coalition left-wing parties will be in a majority, though they may not be in a position to outvote the Nationalist. In that case I say we should not bother about that. But the time is coming when it will not be a coalition of Independent parties, but the Nationalist Party itself will be compelled to come forward and ask for this concession of proportional representation.

I am very much surprised to see Mr. Saadullah, with all his experience as Prime Minister of a Province, saying that the matter should be decided by the votes of the Muslims in the House. I think that this proposition is ridiculously absurd. We have before the House the proposition of Sardar Patel and the House has got the right to vote on it. In the circumstances I am surprised to see Mr. Saadullah making a suggestion of that kind. I know that some of the Muslim Members of this House are for reservation of seats. I say it does not matter. I do not care if the majority is for or against it. But if we allow this question to be decided by the exclusive votes of the Muslims, then it will be on the face of it ridiculously absurd. It will mean that we are not going to make an end of this communalism. It will mean also that we will have to decide the other questions also by separate vote. This is surely absurd. I do not know how a man of his experience has managed the courage to propose such an absurd thing. With these few words I entirely support the motion of Sardar Patel.

Shri Mahavir Tyagi: Sir, I wish to put on record my appreciation of the proposal which has been made by our great leader, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, who is known for his firmness and resolve. After completing his work of political consolidation of India, he is now taking up communal consolidation. I think that the proposal put by him before the House today goes a long way to achieve that objective; but I would like Sardar Patel to throw some light on certain points. With that object I requested you, Sir, to give me a few minutes.

The first thing that I want to say before the House is that I am glad that the Mussalman friends here, practically all of them have supported the motion for the withdrawal of reservation, and for representation to be on unadulterated non-communal lines. It is fortunate, Sir, that they are of this opinion today. There is, however, one thing that the Muslims should note and it is this: When we are switching on to representation from communal to national lines, it cannot be absolutely ideal in the first one or two elections. There might be occasions when Muslims might lose seats because they are giving up their reservations. Let the Muslims know that it will be very difficult for them to get any seat as Muslim under the present conditions of the country. There must be set-backs for them, so long as the rest of India does not feel one with them. They will have to justify by their behaviour that they deserve retaining the seats that they now have. It will take time. In the achievement of this objective, even if the Parliament goes temporarily without any representation of Muslims, I would not be sorry for it, because after the next one or two elections, elections will be fought on the basis of merits and services and not of community. Therefore, when Muslims agree to do away with communal representation or reservation of seats, let them be conscious that they are going to suffer immediately and lose for the time being their representation in all the legislatures. It will not be easy for them to come in such numbers as they have been coming so far. I hope the learned members of that community are fully conscious of this fact when they support this motion.

Another point that I want to emphasise is about the Scheduled Castes. Sir, originally when the scheduled castes were given separate representation, Mahatma Gandhi had started his fast in protest. Now we have it seems, accepted the idea; but when it was first introduced, everybody was shocked. Nobody liked it and when Mahatma Gandhi gave his ultimatum of fast unto death the Prime Minister of England addressed a letter to Gandhiji dated September 8, 1933 in which he said:-

"Under the Government scheme the depressed classed will remain part of the Hindu community and will vote with the Hindu electorate on an equal footing but for the first twenty years, while still remaining electorally part of the Hindu community, they will receive through a limited number of special constituencies the means of safeguarding their rights and interests that, we are convinced, is necessary under present conditions."

You will see, Sir, that when the idea of giving separate reservation to the scheduled castes was first introduced, the intention was that it should last only for twenty years. After that period they were expected to become absolutely one with the Hindus. It was in the year 1933 and now it is 1949. So it is only a few years less than twenty. According to the old scheme of the British Government reservation for the Scheduled Castes should go in 1952, why are we now giving it a further lease of ten years? Again, Sir, if we look at the list of Scheduled Castes, there are so many included in it. We have had the experience of separate reservation for Scheduled Castes. Fasts must be faced as they are. The term "Scheduled Castes" is a fiction. Factually there is no such thing as `Scheduled Castes'. There are some castes who are depressed, some castes who are poor, some who are untouchables,some who are down-trodden. All their names were collected from the various provinces and put into one category "Scheduled Castes". In spite of the category being a fiction it has been there for so many years. Let us look at the way these castes are represented. There are hundreds of castes included in the List, but if you look at their representation in every province you will find that only one or two castes are represented. Those who have got predominance are mostly Chamars, I would say. In the U.P. it is the case. It is the case in the Punjab also. I want to know how the Koris or the Pernas or the Korwas or the Dumnas have benefited by reservation. It is all a fiction, Sir. How is Dr. Ambedkar a member of the Scheduled Castes? Is he illiterate? Is he ill-educated? Is he an untouchable? Is he lacking in anything? He is the finest of the fine intellectuals in India and still he is in the list of scheduled castes. Because he is in the list and because he is a genius, he will perpetually be member and also a Minister, he will always be their representative. Moreover, Sir, he has lately married a Brahmin wife. He is a Brahmin by profession and also because his in-laws are Brahmins. They are others like my Friend, Professor Yashwant Rai. What does he lack? There are thousands of Brahmins and Kshatriyas who are worse off than these friends belonging to the scheduled castes. So by the name of Scheduled Caste, persons who are living a cheerful life, and a selected few of these castes get benefit. This is no real representation. No caste ever gets benefit out of this reservation. It is the individual or the family which gets benefited. So, Sir, while we are doing away with representations and reservations, while we are doing away for good with this caste system, why should we allow it even for ten years? Does not our past experience show that out of the hundred and one scheduled castes only a few get any representation? Then why are so many castes linked with the chariot wheel of the Scheduled Castes? They are simply voters; they do not get any benefit, and even if any member of a caste in India comes up and gets elected how does the Community benefit, I do not understand. I could understand if instead of castes, classes were given reservations. To say that it should be a casteless society, I can understand. Society can be casteless, but society cannot be class-less. So long as the country does not decide to make the society class-less, classes must exist and therefore, classes must have their representation. Sir, to make the whole nation one party, I am afraid, will not be a practical idea. Minorities must exist and must be provided for. There will be no peace so long as minorities are not provided for. I do not believe in the minorities on community basis, but minorities must exist on economic basis, on political basis and on an ideological basis and those minorities must have protection. In this sort of a wholesale decision, the minorities will get little representation. I would suggest that in the place of the Scheduled Caste, the landless labourers, the cobblers or those persons who do similar jobs and who do not get enough to live, should be given special reservations. By allowing caste representations, let us not re-inject the poisonous virus which the Britisher has introduced into our body politic. I would suggest Sir, that instead of the so called Scheduled Caste, minorities be protected, if you like, on class basis. Let cobblers, washermen and similar other classes send their representatives through reservations because they are the one who do not really get any representation. As a matter of fact even after passing the motion which Sardar Patel has put before us, I am afraid the tiller of the soil will not as the conditions are get any representation. The villager is nowhere in the picture. It is the urban citizen alone who gets the protection. It is not the toilers of the soil but the soilers of toil who are benefited. Persons who irrigate paper with black ink get the representation and not those who irrigate the land. These literate mediocres create fear and do nothing productive, but these tillers of the soil and producers of wealth are mostly those who are illiterate and therefore they are deprived of their due share of representation. Thus the nation is perpetually mis-represented by men of law, literature and letters. The `Pen' rules over the `Plough'. The creators of wealth are those who are without education and those persons will remain as such. They were slaves before and will remain slaves today and even after your passing this Constitution. If you want to help those down-trodden classes, then, Sir, the best thing would be to keep some safeguards for them. We should forge a law which would bring those illiterates into this House. As a matter of fact there is hardly a single Kisan member of the Constituent Assembly of the type of which 80 per cent of Kisans live in India. Unless those very Kisans come here as they are, India will not be properly represented. I therefore, submit, Sir, that the Scheduled Castes should now go and in place of Scheduled Caste, the words "Scheduled classes" be substituted so that we may not inadvertently perpetuate the communal slur on our Parliaments. In fact the Untouchables had only some social disabilities. Now all the Governments have passed enactments removing those social disabilities and among those persons who come here as the representatives, I fear, there is not one who has any social disability about him. The Scheduled Caste man can marry a Brahmin girl and there is no disability. I say, Sir, in the name of Scheduled Castes a few individuals are getting the benefit. Let the House dispassionately consider the situation as it is, take advantage of the experience that we have gained for the last so many years of what the `Scheduled Castes' have actually meant. And then make up our mind as to whether or not we could substitute this communal representation by giving reservations to classes who would mostly be the same voters but with a better title and a healthier outlook.

An Honourable Member: Is the honourable Member moving his amendments?

Shri Mahavir Tyagi: Sir, I am not moving any amendment, because it is not the time to move one. I will move the amendments when the article comes up for consideration. This is only a general discussion. I will come out with my amendments when the occasion arises. This is not the occasion for amendments Sir, and I want to take two opportunities to discuss this issue. Sri, the method of representation as envisaged in this Draft Constitution is very good, because it does away with the communal virus altogether, but at the same time shall we take into account the fact that if the Muslims were not returned, what will be our position?

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava (East Punjab: General): Why do you assume so?

Shri Mahavir Tyagi: Because I know; I do not live in the air; I am a man of the people and I know the Hindu mind and also the Muslim mind. Let the nation know it. The Muslims already know that they will not be returned for some time to come, so long as they do not rehabilitate themselves among the masses and assure the rest of the people that they are one with them. They have been separate in every matter for a long time past and in a day you can't switch over from Communalism to Nationalism. There is a class of Muslims who always went with power and that class can talk in any manner they lime, but for the real Muslims it would take some time to switch their mentality from Communalism to Nationalism. This separation and isolation was of their own earning, they have enjoyed its fruits so long; now they should be ready to face set-backs. So the proposal put forward by Mr. Lari seems to me to warrant our consideration. He suggested that we can have cumulative system of votes in a plural constituency. There is no intricacy about it. As against this, the system of representation by the single transferable vote is extremely intricate. This cumulative vote is a very easy affair. Suppose there is a plural constituency of four seats. I have four votes and a Muslims friend has also four votes. I have the liberty either of distributing these four votes to four persons or give all the four votes to one candidate or three to one and one to another or two to one and two to another. I will either distribute or if I so choose I might give all the four votes to a candidate of my choice; and in that manner the minority can also have some say-not only the Muslim minority but even the socialist and the communist minority.

Suppose there are shopkeepers in an urban constituency and there the consumers decide to send their representative. So if the consumers choose to cast all their four votes to their representative, they can push their candidate up. This is a method which without any communal representation without any consideration of caste or class gives a sense of security to all types of minorities. Yet you still maintain the label-pure nationalism. In this way you can accommodate the minorities of today and the coming minorities of tomorrow. I will suggest that the House might consider whether the cumulative voting system will not do. In that case, we do not need to reserve any seats for any caste and, at the same time, we give them an opportunity to send up their candidates. This has been in practice in many other countries with success too. Therefore, I would commend strongly that this cumulative voting system be considered. Let this also be allowed for ten years. The reservation for the Scheduled Castes may therefore go; the Sikh representation may go; the Muslim representation, may also go. We may have representation of all these people without bringing any slur on our Nationalism. This is a most practicable method.

This is all I have to say. Only a word more. I wish to congratulate my honourable friends here, Sikh representatives, Muslim representatives and the Christian representatives, who have readily come forward to accept the withdrawal of reservations. I hope the country will appreciate the great offer, historical offer that they have made. The electorate will always be considerate to the sporting offer that has been made and I am sure the country will feel grateful to the minority who have come forward under the influence of a patriotic spirit to give up their reservations.

With these words, I commend that there should be no reservation of any community or caste and the minority may be given protection by the cumulative vote.

Col. B. H. Zaidi (Rampur-Banares State): Mr. President, I am grateful indeed for the opportunity you have granted me to make my first speech in this House during the course of this historic debate.

Sir, it has given me very great pleasure,and I know that this pleasure would be shared by every section of the House, that representatives of the minorities, and the representatives of the Muslims also, have given proof as never before of a sane, sound, balanced, patriotic outlook. It augurs well for the future. I am sorry, Sir, that perhaps, the only exceptions are a few friends from the South. Old traditions take a long time to die out. For nearly forty years, the Muslims were used to the props and crutches provided to them by the British. We came to love these prop and crutches. Many a patient who has lost the use of his legs and is given crutches will stick to them and would like to lean on them even when some good surgeon has given him back the use of his legs. These generally wish to cling to their crutches. Crutches is not the right word; I should say, stilts because, stilts not only support you, but also give you artificial height. If we throw away these stilts, not only do we need to trust to the strength of our legs but also we are reduced in height. We were given some artificial importance in this country. It was an importance which was nothing more than an illusion. We wish to cling to that illusion, to the mere emptiness of it. I hope that in course of time, not in the distant future but in the very near future, even those friends will come to realise that their truest friend and not their ill wisher was a man like the Honourable Sardar Patel, and other leaders who are shaping the destinies of this country.

I will give the reasons. The best thing that the Sardar could do if he was not a friend of the Muslims would be to allow them to cling to their crutches. It would make them cripples for the rest of their lives. It would lead to degeneration and demoralisation out of which there would be no cure. What is he doing? It is not only for India that a right step has been taken-Even for the minorities, the best thing is being done. We are given the use of our legs. We are being taught the lesson of self-reliance. Would any person possessing any self-respect, any pride, any manliness in him, cling to artificial safeguards? Is it not against his grain, does it not go against his guards? Are these really safeguards? Do they provide the safety? do they serve the ends we have in view? After all, what would be the surest guarantee for a happy, prosperous and honourable future for the Muslims of this country? In my humble opinion, only two things will spell their salvation. The first and foremost is self-reliance, strength from within, self-respect, faith and trust in their own brethren, the majority community. If, Sir, we could be given safeguards which would deprive us of that trust and the confidence of the majority community, if something we ask for is conceded by this Parliament, by the leaders, but the bulk of the majority community are given offence by that, if some suspicion lingers in their minds, if they are not pleased, what safeguards can stand us in good stead? What is the use of paper safeguards? The real safeguard is reliance on our own strength and trusting to the goodwill friendliness brotherly feeling, and justice even generosity, of our own brothers, who are really our own kith and kin.

If there is any suspicion in the minds of the members of my community or members of any minority community in our country in the good faith of the Hindus, it can only be based on two things: either the bitter experience of the present generation or the teachings of Indian history. So far as the present generation is concerned, when did any minority in this country leave their future and their interests in the safe keeping of the majority community? We never trusted ourselves, and never trusted our brothers. We trusted only a third party. Therefore, when was the occasion in the history of the last one hundred years when we can in fairness turn back and point to one single example when our interests have been majority in this country? The occasion never arose. There was no question of their feeling a responsibility for our future and our interests when we were really neither looking to them, nor looking to our own strength, when we were looking to a foreign power, which in its own interests was dividing us and making cripples of us.

Where the experience of the present century is no guide, we may turn to history. If the Hindus in this country have given proof of narrow mindedness, bigotry, persecution of minorities, then, certainly we shall be justified in entertaining some sort of fear about our future. What does a study of history reveal? So far as I know, there has been no occasion in the history of India when the Hindus have persecuted a minority. They have turned themselves from a minority into a majority on one occasion. When Buddhism was reigning supreme in this country, when the Hindus were in a minority, they gradually saw to it that from a minority they converted themselves into a majority. But as against the Buddhists there were the Jains who were a minority. There were the Syrian Christians, the Parsis, and many others. Indeed, India has given asylum and protection to a number of minorities, and the only example I can think of, the only unhappy episode in the history of India was the fate which Buddhism met in the land of its own birth, but it can hardly be called persecution of a minority. The present generation, I suppose is atoning for that, and we are now going back to Buddhist symbols and in our flag, in our national emblems we are giving a place of honour to something from which we ran away, something which we did not sufficiently honour at that time. So, whether in the light of history or in the light of the immediate experience of the present generation, I feel that the minorities have no grounds to fear that they will not get goodwill, friendliness and fair-mindedness on the part of the majority community.

What is our experience in this House? I am not a frequent comer to this House. But whenever I come, I am particularly struck by one thing-the great toleration, good-humour and friendly encouragement to members of every section of opinion and to the members of the minorities. Even in the minority there is a gentleman who is in a minority of one, ever since I have come here. There is my Friend Maulana Hasrat Mohani who is in a minority by himself. But even in his case I have found this House indulgent and full of friendliness and good-humour. So whether it is in this House or whether it is in the actions of the Congress Party, in the leadership of the country, we see no sign of any feeling underlying everything. But even if the majority community is to ask for no safeguards. I would rather wait till the conscience of the majority community was awakened. The only thing which can safeguard the future is reform of the inner spirit. Sir, this is not the only country in which there is the minority and minority interests. Even in England, the treatment of the minority was not always what we might imagine it to be. As a student I had occasion to go to the Action Library one day and in the library, I saw a tablet with some words from Lord Morley, the friend of Action. I came to know from the tablet that Lord Action being a Roman Catholic was denied admission to the Cambridge University simply because he was a Roman Catholic, and later on in life, the same University asked Lord Action to do them the honour of accepting professorship of the same University. Things broaden down in course of time. What brought about the safeguarding of the interests of the Roman Catholics? They were not allowed admission to the universities, nor into the civil services. What were the forces which brought about this liberalisation in the British outlook? Certainly not agitation on the part of the Roman Catholics, not safeguards granted to them, but the conscience of England, the British conscience was pricked and they felt sorry that they were not giving a square deal to their own Roman Catholic brethren. In recent history, what brought about the abolition of slavery? Was it agitation on the part of the slaves or any safeguards granted to them by anyone? No, it was the awakened conscience of the various countries where slavery was flourishing. Sir, I will leave the future of the minorities to the goodwill and fair-mindedness of the majority community, in which I fully believe. But even if it were not there, I would wait for the blossoming of this toleration and fair-mindedness. I would wait, whatever the cost, for the growing conscience among my own countrymen, for there can be no future for this country except on the basis of true democracy and fair opportunity for all. My Friend Mr. Tajamul Husain said, "Let there be no minority in this country." Well Sir, there is one minority in this country which has always been, and which is existing in every country, and will go on existing, and that is the minority of the good and the just, of the people who are humane and liberal-minded, and who work for the regeneration of mankind and for the progress of humanity. There is that minority today in this country, and to that minority Sardar Patel and the Prime Minister of India, and to that minority Sardar Patel and the Prime Minister of India, and you Sir, who adorn the Chair, belong, and the Members of this House. I hope. That is the minority which stands for the establishment of unalloyed democracy and justice and a progressive and radical outlook in this country. If the minorities have any fears, let them go and join this glorious and eternal minority of the very best people in our country, who are the salt of the land, and in the hands of these people, not only the destiny of India but the destinies of the minorities are safe. Let us, if we are conscious of our own weakness, and if we are faint-hearted, join this minority and strengthen their hands and our future is assured. (Cheers).

The Honourable Shri Satyanarayan Sinha (Bihar:General): Sir, the question may now be put.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That the question be now put."

The motion was adopted.

The Honourable Sardar Vallabhbhai J. Patel (Bombay: General):Sir, when I was first appointed Chairman of the Advisory Committee on Minorities, I really trembling and I took up the jobs with a heavy heart, because I felt the task was immensely difficult, owing to the history of the past so many years of foreign rule. When I took up that job, I had to undertake it at a time when conditions in the country were extremely difficult and all classes of people were full of suspicion; there was hardly any trust amongst many sections of the people. Yet I can say that the moment power was transferred, a gradual transformation began to take place and it gave me considerable encouragement. I began to sense a feeling of gradual growth of trust and mutual confidence.

Now, Sir, the first time when in the Minorities Committee we came to the decisions giving certain political safeguards by way of reservations and when those proposals were put before the House, I had brought them with a very great degree of consent or concurrence of the minority communities. There was a difference of opinion from some progressive nationalist-minded leaders, such as Dr. Mookherjee who from the beginning opposed any kind of reservation or safeguards. I am sure he will be happy today to find that his ambition is being fulfilled.

Well, when I brought those proposals and place them before this House, there was another group of people who had found it difficult to get out of the mire in which they had gone very deep. Here a proposal was brought forward by one friend from Madras, for reservation and for communal electorates. Now when the separate communal electorate motion was moved, it was supported by the great Muslim leader, who swore loyalty to the Constitution in this House and immediately after packed off to Karachi. He is now carrying on the work of the Muslim League on that side. He has left a legacy here-a residuary legacy perhaps in Madras. Unfortunately, there is still a very large amount of funds belonging to the old Muslim League, which was the All-India Muslim League, which has yet to be settled, and some of our friends still claim that they might get some big chunk of those funds if they still persist in continuing the old League here. Even if the money, or a good portion of it, could be brought here, I doubt if it would do any good to those who get it. Those who claim that in this country there are two nations and that there is nothing common between the two, and "that we must have our homeland where we can breather freely", let them do so. I do not blame them. But those who still have that idea that they have worked of it, that they have got it and therefore they should follow the same path here, to them I respectfully appeal to go and enjoy the fruits of that freedom and to leave us in peace. There is no place here for those who claim separate representation. Separate representation, when it was introduced in this unfortunate country, was introduced not by the demand of those who claim to have made those demands, but as Maulana Muhammad Ali once said, it was a "command performance" that has fulfilled its task and we have all enjoyed the fruits of it. Let us now for the first time have a change of chapter in the history of this country and have a "consent performance". I want the consent of this House and the consent of all the minorities to change of chapter in the history. You have the privilege and the honour to do it. The future generation will record in golden letters the performance that you are doing today I hope the trust that the step that we are taking today is the step which will change the face, the history and the character of our country.

We have the first amendment- the main amendment which was then rejected in the August Session of 1947-moved by the same group. I do not know whether there has been any change in their attitude to bring forward such an amendment even now after all this long reflection and experience of what has happened in this country. But I know this that they have got a mandate from the Muslim League to move this amendment. I feel sorry for them. This is not a place today for acting on mandates. This is a place today to act on your conscience and to act of the good of the country. For a community to think that its interests are different from that of the country in which it lives, is a great mistake. Assuming that we agreed today to the reservation of seats, I would consider myself to be the greatest enemy of the Muslim community, because of the consequences of that step in a secular and democratic State. Assume that you have separate electorates on a communal basis. Will you ever find a place in any of the Ministers in the Provinces or in the Centre? You have a separate interest. Here is a Ministry or a Government based on joint responsibility, where people who do not trust us, or who do not trust the majority cannot obviously come into the Government itself. Accordingly, you will have no share in the Government. You will exclude yourselves and remain perpetually in a minority. Then, what advantage will you gain? You perhaps still think that there will be some third power who will use its influence to put the minority against the majority and compel the majority to take one or two Ministers according to the proportion of the population. It is a wrong idea. That conception in your mind which has worked for many years must be washed off altogether. Here we are a free country: have we are a sovereign State: here we are a sovereign Assemble: here we are moulding our future according to our own free will. Therefore, please forget the past: try to forget it. If it is impossible, then the best place is where your thoughts and ideas suit you. I do not want to harm the poor common masses of Muslim who have suffered much, and whatever may be your claim or credit for having a separate State and a separate homeland-God bless you for what you have got--please do not forget what the Muslims have suffered--the poor Muslims. Leave them in peace to enjoy the fruits of their hard labour and sweat.

I remember that the gentleman who moved the motion here last time, in August 1947, when asking for separate electorates, I believe, said that the Muslims today were a very strong, well-knit and well-organised minority. Very good. A minority that could force the partition of the country is not a minority at all. Why do you think that you are a minority? If you are a strong, well-knit and well-organised minority, why do you want to claim safeguards, why do you want to claim privileges? It was all right when there was a third party: but that is all over. That dream is a mad dream and it should be forgotten altogether. Never think about that, do not imagine that anybody will come here to hold the scales and manipulate them continuously. All that is gone. So the future of a minority, any minority, is to trust the majority. If the majority misbehaves, it will suffer. It will be a misfortune, to this country if the majority does not realise its own responsibility. If I were a member of a minority community, I would forget that I belong to a minority community. Why should not a member of any community be the Prime Minister of this country? Why should not Mr. Nagappa who today challenges the Brahmin be so? I am glad to hear that the ownership of 20 acres of land does not entitle him to be a scheduled casts man. "That is my privilege" he said " because I am born a scheduled caste man. You have first to be born in the scheduled caste". It gladdened my heart immensely that that young man had the courage to come before the House and claim the privilege of being born in the Scheduled Caste. It is not a dishonour: he has an honourable place in this country. I want every scheduled caste man to feel that he is superior to a Brahmin or rather, let us say, I want every scheduled caste man and the Brahmin to forget that he is a scheduled caste man or a Brahmin respectively and that they are all equal and the same.

Now our Friend Mr. Saadulla from Assam claimed that he was not disclosing a secret when he said that they has met in December or in February to consider the question whether reservation were in the interests of a minority of not or whether they were in the interests of the Muslims or not. Now may I ask him: Did I suggest to him to consider the question? Why did they meet to consider the question, of there was not the imperceptible influence of the elimination of foreign rule in this land? How did they begin to think that reservations may or may not be better for them? Spontaneously the thought has been growing, it has been coming on the minds of people who previously were asking for the partition of the country. That is the first fruit of freedom. You have got a free mind to think now and therefore you begin to feel that what you have done in the past may perhaps not be right. And that fact was represented before the Minorities Committee. When Dr. Mookherjee moved his motion, it was Mr. Tajamul Husain from Bihar who stood up and moved an amendment that reservations must go. He was challenged in the Committee whether he had consulted the other members of the Muslim community, and he quoted chapter and verse from the representatives of the provinces whom he had consulted. Yet we did not want a snap vote. I said that I would advise the Advisory Committee to hold over the question and ask all members of the minority communities to consult their constituencies and find out what they really wanted. Nearly four months after that we me and unfortunately Mr. Saadulla was not present or he did not appear and so the opinions that he had gathered remained with him. He did not even communicate them to us. He said that there were only an attendance of four there of whom (I do not know whether he has consulted Maulana Azad or not) he says that Maulana Azad remained neutral. He claims to know Maulana Azad's mind more then I can do. But I can tell him that Maulana Azad is not a cipher: he has a conscience. If he felt that it was against the interests of his community he would have immediately said so and protested. But he did not do so, because he knew and felt that what was being done was right. Therefore if Mr. Saadulla interprets his silence as neutrality he is much mistaken, because Maulana Azad is a man who has stood up against the whole community all throughout his life and even in crises. He has not changed his clothes and I am sure if he has claimed or worked for partition and if he had ever believed that this is a country of two nations, after the Partition he would not have remained here: because he could not stay here if he believed that his nation was separate.

But there are some people who worked for separation, who claimed all throughout their lives that the two nations are different and yet claim to represent here the remaining "nation". I am surprised that Mr. Saadulla claims to represent the vast masses of Muslims in this country now. How can he? I am amazed that he makes the claim. On the there hand. I represent the Muslims better than he ever can. He can never do that by the methods that he has followed all his life. He must change them. He says that he is not enamoured of reservations: Assam dies not want it. Then who wants it? Is It the Muslim of India? Is that the way that this House is to decide this question? He says that if in this House the votes of the minority or the Muslims are against his proposal then he will accept the verdict. Well, he has seen the opinion of the Muslims in this House. Then let him change his opinion.

We are playing with very high stakes and we are changing the course of history. It is a very heavy responsibility that is on us and therefore I appeal to every one of you to think before you vote, to search your conscience and to think what is going to happen in the future of this country. The future shape of this country as a free country is different from the future that was contemplated by those who worked for partition. Therefore I would ask those who have worked for that to note that the times have changed, the circumstances have changed and the world has changed and that therefore they must change if they want salvation. Now I need not waste any time on the question of separate electorates.

Our Friend Mr. Lari has put in another amendment. He says that the Committee's approach was right. I am glad he admits that. There is no point in a committee meeting with a wrong approach. The Committee left the question to the minority. We did not take the initiative. When I first drafted the proposals for reservation of seats for the minorities I tried to take the largest majority opinion of the minorities on the Committee with me. I did not want to disturb the susceptibilities of the minorities. My attempt as representative of this House has continuously been to see that the minority feels at ease. Even if today any concession in made it is with the sole object of easing the suspicions of even the smallest group in this House, because I think that a discontented minority is a burden and a danger and that we must not do anything to injure the feelings of any minority so long as it is not unreasonable. But when Mr. Lari says that we must introduce the system of proportional. I must tell him that it is not anything new. Its origin was in Ireland and it is now in vogue in Switzerland and some other countries. I may point out to Mr. Lari that Ireland is not equal to one district of the United Provinces. Gorakhpur district alone is bigger then Ireland. Ours is a vast country with masses of people. We have introduced adult franchise here where there is so much illiteracy. Therefore even this simple system of direct vote is frightening. That being so, it is not easy to introduce complications of this nature. In this Constitution to introduce such complications is very dangerous. Therefore, if he is satisfied that reservation is bad then let him not try to bring it back by the backdoor. Leave it as it is. Trust us and see what happens. A month ago at the election to the Ahmedabad municipality I noticed that all the Muslims contested jointly under the system of joint electorates and, although they were opposed by people financed by the League, everyone of them got in and the Scheduled Castes got one more seat then their quota. Free and unfettered election has proved that any kind of impediment by say of reservation or other things is bad for us. If we leave the thing to be settled by the majority and the minority among them-selves they will do so and it will bring credit to all. Why are you afraid? Yesterday you were saying, you are a big minority well organised. Why are you afraid? Make friends with others and create a change in the atmosphere. You will then get more then your quota, if you really feel for the country in the same manner as the other people. New I do not think so far as the Muslim case is concerned, there is any other point remaining to be answered. Most of the able representatives of the Muslim community here have exposed the claims made by the other representatives. I need not therefore say more about this.

Now the other case is that of the Sikhs. I have always held the Sikh community with considerable respect, regard and admiration. I have been their friend even though sometimes they disclaimed me. On this occasion also i did advise them that if they insisted I sill give it to them and induce the Committee to agree. But I do feel that this is not in their interests. It is for them to decide. I leave it to them. to ask for this concession for the Scheduled Caste Sikhs does not reflect credit on the Sikh community. They quoted Ranjit Singh who gave such help to the Scheduled Castes. What empire did they hold, the Scheduled Castes? They have been the most down-trodden people, absolute dust with the dust. What is their position today in spite of all our tall talk? A few people may be bold and courageous. But 10,000 of them in three days were converted into Christians. Go to Bidar and see? Why, is it a change of religion? No, They were afraid that for their past association with the Razakars in their crimes they will be arrested. They have committed some offenses. They thought that they have the big Mission to protect them from arrest. This time conversions took place among the Scheduled Castes. But, apart from conversions, I ask you, have you ever gone and stayed for an hour in a scavenger's house? Have they any place which they can call their homelands, though Mr. Nagappa said: India is mine?" It is very good. I am proud of it. But the poor people are oppressed continuously and have not been saved yet and given protection. We are trustees. We have given a pledge in Poona under the Poona Pact. Have w fulfilled that pledge? We must confess we are guilty. And I may tell you for your information that thousands of them in other parts of the country want to come back, but are not allowed to. They cannot come back and, unfortunately, we are unable to help them. That is what the Scheduled Castes are. They are not people who keep kirpans. They are a different lot. But to keep a kirpan or a sword and to entertain fear is inconsistent. This may react detrimentally to your cause. I do not grudge this concession to the Sikhs. I will ask the Sikhs to take control of the country and rule. They may be able to rule because they have got the capacity, they have got the resources and they have got the courage. In any field, either in agriculture, in engineering or in the army, in any walk of life you have proved your mettle. Why do you being to think low of yourself? That is why I am asking the Scheduled Caste people also to forget that they are Scheduled Castes. Although it is difficult for them to forget it, it is not difficult for the Sikhs to do so. Therefore, when you acknowledge with gratefulness the concession that we have given, I am grateful to you. In this country we want the atmosphere of peace and harmony now, not of suspicion but of trust. We want to grow. India today is suffering from want of blood. It is completely anaemic.

Unless you put blood into its veins, even if we quarrel about concessions of reservation, we will get nothing. We have to build up this country on solid foundations. As I told you, I was trembling on the day I was appointed as Chairman of this Committee but I felt proud and today also I feel proud-and I hope the House will feel proud--that we are able to bring about almost unanimity in removing the past blots in our Constitution (hear, hear) and to lay, with the grace of God and with the blessings of the Almighty, the foundations of a true secular democratic State, where everybody has equal chance. Let God give us the wisdom and the courage to do the right thing to all manner of people. (Cheers).

Mr. President: I will now put the amendments one by one to the vote. First, the amendment of Mr. Mohamed Ismail. The question is:

"(a) That sub-paragraph (i) of the second paragraph of the motion be deleted and sub-paragraph (ii) be re-numbered as sub-paragraph (i)

(b) That after sub-paragraph (i) so formed, the following sub-paragraphs be added:-

(ii) that the principle of reservation of seats on the population basis for the Muslims and other minority communities in the Central and Provincial legislatures of the country be confirmed and retained; and

(iii) that notwithstanding any decisions already taken by this Assembly in this behalf, the provisions of Part XIV and any other allied article of the Draft Constitution be so amended as to ensure that the seats reserved in accordance with sub-clause (i) above shall be filled by the members of the respective communities elected by constituencies of voters belonging to the said respective minorities."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: I will now put to vote the amendments of Mr. Lari paragraph by paragraph. The question is:

"That in sub-paragraph (i) of the second paragraph of the Motion, after the words 'the provision of' the words 'article 67 and' be inserted".

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That in sub-paragraph (i) of the second paragraph of the Motion, after the words 'in the said Report' the words ' with the addition that elections be held under the system of cumulative votes in multi-member constituencies and the modification that no seats be reserved for the Scheduled Castes' be inserted."

The amendment was negatived.

Mr. President: Then there is the amendment which was moved by Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava.

Pandit Balkrishna Sharma (United Provinces: General): I think the mover accepts the amendment.

The Honourable Sardar Vallabhbhai J. Patel: Yes, Sir, I accept the amendment.

Mr. President: The question is;

"That the following be added to the Motion:-

"The provisions for reservation of seats and nominations will last for a period of ten years from the commencement of this Constitution.'"

The amendment was adopted.

Mr. President: The question is:

"That the original Motion as amended by Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava's amendment which has been accepted be adopted."

The motion, as amendment, was adopted.

Mr. President: The House stands adjourned till 8 O'clock, tomorrow morning.

The Constituent Assembly then adjourned till Eight of the Clock on Friday the 27th May, 1949.